I've complained in other forums about some of these same problems. So often people want to press their voice onto the person they are critiquing. I complained about this the most in one of the contest. A judges job is to judge what is there, the voice, the style, and the structure of the writer, not judge on what the piece isn't, but what it is.
@Wreybies. Not sick at all. It's a good example of how critiquing can be as beneficial as being critiqued. For the record, when I read your piece, despite the fact I can usually nail a location and make it feel lived in, I really didn't feel anything was missing. If I had, I would have passed comment. I think I was taking into account that we all have our own way of doing things. What you pointed out was one of my strengths, and one I was unaware of. (And it came at a good time when I needed to believe I was doing something right... anything. ) You got something out of it... I got something out of it. Bonus!!!
Don't pretend y'all don't like it. Why else would you keep coming back. I know I'm a stud. I like the way the air feels on my "bear" skin.
I'll be honest, I don't do as many critiques as I should because so many times people don't like the things I say. I'm one of those types of people that really doesn't like making other people mad. I know you are laughing right now because you think I'm a pain in the ass most of the time, but that is all in fun. When I start critiquing someone's 'baby' that is totally different. At that point it becomes personal. I want people to know up front I'm going to tell you like it is, and it ISN'T personal. If anyone wants me to critique their pieces just let me know, and be ready to get an honest critique.
You could always throw in some positive comments to show that you have good intentions. Maybe mention one thing you liked for every two things you think should be changed. If you can't find anything you like about the piece, just make something up.
Oh, I don't mean to say that I only say negative things. It's just when you are critiquing random people before they get to know you, and you rip their piece apart, with good intentions, they could be very sensitive about it. That's the problem I worry about.
@Lewdog My first real public crit came from @Wreybies. He pointed something out. I realised he was right. Did it hurt that I couldn't see the problem myself? Of course. Do I blame Wrey? Of course not... he did me a favour by pointing it out. Critique with kindness. Only blow as much smoke up their ass as you need to. If you do that and an attitude gets copped, that is their problem to deal with, not yours. I don't like hurting peoples feelings either, but the onus shouldn't be on us to see that they have the spine to take it. Ultimately that's their responsibility. I was so nervous, I had to go to @jannert and @Andrae Smith privately before I could even think of putting anything up publicly. Maybe I'm just too used to checking that I'm not completely delusional.
I rewrite--often--but not with the intention that anyone should imitate my rewriting. I do it in order to illustrate some other point that I'm making, and rather than trying to imitate the other writer's voice, I use my own. I try--I think perhaps too often--to make it very very clear that I'm using my own voice and not suggesting that they use my exact example or my style. Now, maybe it would be better if I not only used my own voice but created my own story for the example, but that seems like an awful lot of setup to make a point.
This is true. It is not our responsibility to check if the writer has a spine for reviews. There was a post in the workshop recently in which the writer gave up after a few posts of "I don't understand this." They weren't harsh, just a sad truth. If that writer wants to get anywhere in publications, he or she should grow another couple layers of plated skin (or something ). That does not absolve us of the personal responsibility to exhibit kindness as best we can. No we don't have to sugar coat things. The professional world won't. Still, it all goes back to tone. And who knows, sometimes finding someone you trust to provide a private critique is a good way to open the door. I was honored to have you come to me, @obsidian_cicatrix.
Looking back at my critique of one of @Andrae Smith's poems, I realized that I didn't state a single thing I liked about the poem. Sorry, Andrae. I feel bad now.
All is well, buddy. Your tone is always perfect, so I felt like I was just receiving advice to make it better as opposed to someone trashing it. Then again, I could just be seeing the best in you. Don't feel bad, though. We busy college folk can be forgetful.
@Andrae Smith I think the problem is that too many people believe their own hype. The crit you are referring to, I saw your reply. I seriously had visions of towels getting chucked and then you jumped in to make the point that the crits were being taken personally when that's not how they were intended. You might well have had to do the same for me, if I hadn't beaten you to it.
Well duh! I'm the best writer east of the Mississippi River, South of the Ohio River, and North of the Cumberland Gap.
This is true for both ends, I think. Writers can be too excited about their own writing, and reviewers can be too excited about their opinion. I'm guilt of placing high value on my opinion at times. Still, in that particular post, I wanted to be clear that the critics weren't being harsh or personal, while pointing out that they were a little less than helpful. I didn't want the writer giving up on what he or she was trying to to do without getting any constructive feedback.
I've been trying to emulate some of the other member's positive critic style; they have more of a 'get back to writing and this is what you should keep an eye on' attitude, which I admire. Even if something isn't good, they'll learn more by finishing it.
@Lewdog He can't even spell his own name right... go, go... critique him. I dare ya. Edit: He can't even spell his own name correctly.
Even though you can get something out of almost every critique, I do think thirdwind's original post had a point. There is a line to cross where a situation can become almost destructive, and this is especially true for a new or young writer. I remember as a kid (8 years old in third grade), our teacher assigned a creative writing assignment. Writing was the absolute joy of my life when I was little (I did it everywhere I went), and I couldn't wait to get started. We had to write a Science Fiction story, so I put a lot of thought into exactly how I would write it, what the storyline would be, what kinds of characters I would create, and every other detail. I made up a whole new planet, a whole new set of beings/aliens, and elaborate names and descriptions for them all that I remember thinking were earth-shatteringly clever. I worked on it for weeks, typed it, added great illustrations, read it aloud to my family, and by the time it was finished I had a tome (for an 8 yr. old) that was about 15 pages including pictures. Well, a few days later, I got it back with a low grade and many notes in the margin complaining about plots and characters that didn't make 'sense', and lots of other violations of the rules for writing fiction. I don't remember the exact working too much, but I do remember most flipping through the pages of red ink to find that in the places I had written my (creative and deeply thought out) names for the planet and its wonderful aliens she had crossed them out and written 'Mars' and 'Martians'. Now, it could very well have been true that what I wrote didn't make sense, and it could have been an absolute fact that the names I had given for these new places and characters were silly, but the fact remained that they were mine, and she did not have a right to infringe on those kinds of decisions. I can hardly remember anything in my life to that point that crushed me more than what happened that day. I remember putting the pencil down and refusing to write anything ever again for the rest of that year. I know that kids are different, and you have to tread very carefully with them when critiquing (I am a teacher now myself and do lots of creative writing with kids), but I think that even when reading adult work you have to be mindful, and there is no benefit whatever to dragging someone through mud and glass if they are just trying to learn and you want to create a supportive environment that makes people want to write. In the standard publishing world tact goes out the window (and that is perfectly understandable), but I think the best critiques I've seen are the ones where people honestly point out problems with valid suggestions on how to improve them. Even though they are critical, the writer is not bashed senseless and they are left wanting to try it again.
@aikoaiko talk about a bad experience! I'm glad you didn't drop the pen forever after that. I guess you didn't get to keep your story though, which is sad . It's fun to look back on stuff like that.
