The Point of View questions thread

Discussion in 'Point of View, and Voice' started by SB108, Jul 8, 2007.

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  1. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Read some H P Lovecraft -- he did that sort of thing a lot. Usually somebody finds the journal years later, which is a bit of a cliché but it doesn't occupy much of the narrative. If in the last paragraph the person who finds the journal discovers that the monster is still there and is now stalking them then you're likely to get branded "Lovecraftian" but don't worry, that's not an insult, it's a sub-genre.
     
  2. GoldenGhost

    GoldenGhost Senior Member

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    Ahhhh, even given what you just said, I believe I have a new angle that the story can be told. Thank you for this.
     
  3. Skodt

    Skodt New Member

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    Read Bram Stokers Dracula. Written as a Journal. Just this story is about a vampire. He tells his story of going to the mansion of the Count Dracula. He then journels his time there.
     
  4. BFGuru

    BFGuru Active Member

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    Dracula wasn't really journals as much as it was letters...at least from what I remember.
     
  5. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Barm Stoker's Dracula was written as journal entries and letters. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was written as a series of letters. Both are examples of epistolary novels. It's a form that has fallen out of favor because the reader is never present in the actual story. It's usually too much emotional distance.
     
  6. GoldenGhost

    GoldenGhost Senior Member

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    I have decided to add a different take on it which has the potential to create more conflict. As someone suggested, I will keep the journal idea full in mind, and what will now happen is a few young adults, by way of a dare, find themselves entering an old abandoned mansion. Upon exploration, they discover the journal and one chooses to read it aloud. The end of the journal entry describing what was going on is left unfinished and they soon find themselves in the midst of chaos.

    This, hopefully, keeps the POV anchored and allots for more characterization. Thoughts?
     
  7. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    Sounds like a good idea. But I don't think the story is impossible to write with your original set-up.

    For example, I think you can start with a 1st person limited narrator who tells what's happening in present time (the monster is breathing down his neck, etc). Then he thinks about how it all started. Insert a scene break, and start telling the backstory from 1st person more-or-less-omniscient. When you're done, make a new scene break and end the story in present time.

    I don't think the backstory needs to be something the main character actually speaks or writes down. If you only make the time switches clear, I think the reader will go along with you.
     
  8. kamikazepilot42

    kamikazepilot42 New Member

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    What Islander has suggested is most similar to my thoughts.

    I really do not think it's difficult to accomplish what you are trying to do. The way I would do it...

    As long as you have clear breaks (whether they are chapters or section breaks or whatnot), it really is quite simple to make POV jumps. You can have sections from his journal interspersed with sections of "live" action (from whatever POV you want). As long as you do not jump too frequently (make sure you stick to one narrative long enough to allow the reader to sink into it a little), I think this could be very effective.

    You can also do it jumping time, so that the story is not laid out in chronological order. Instead, you lay it out so that the POV changes are most effective and well-placed.

    I will add that while the concept is really not that complex, it doesn't necessarily mean it's easy to execute. But I think if done correctly it can work really well.
     
  9. GoldenGhost

    GoldenGhost Senior Member

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    I appreciate all the feedback and I am taking everything into consideration. I am going to try it from the angle people stumble upon a journal and discover the beast is still alive and see how it turns out and then I might fashion a few different versions where I may add first person flashbacks and cut scenes from present time. That way I can actually keep it in first person throughout the entire thing and the POV never changes, just the setting or time period.
     
  10. Ettina

    Ettina Senior Member

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    A bit of an irrelevant comment - the host sounds pretty creepy, spying on a guest like that.
     
  11. GoldenGhost

    GoldenGhost Senior Member

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    There is ample reason, believe me. He is not 'spying' as the excerpt might make one believe.


    And a bit of an update: I have finished the piece and now it is in the polishing stages. I did away with the first person POV and it is now told through the third person. Two criminals are being chased through a forest when they come upon an abandoned mansion. They decide to flee to the mansion and discover the reason they were not pursued.
     
  12. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    I'm in the middle of a rather large fantasy novel which has half a dozen main characters, and I found myself writing a dinner between three of them. From three different points of view. At present I've got them separated by chapters, which seems clumsy to me, not to mention makes for three short chapters, but at least clearly signals that it's a new character each time. I've thought about scrapping the chapters and using breaks instead.

    But my question is this. Is there a better more seemless way to switch POV's while letting the audience know what's happened so that there's no confusion, and at the same time keeping the narritive flowing smoothly?

    Thanks, Greg.
     
  13. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Frank Herbert was able to smoothly switch POVs, even within a scene. For an example, read the gom jabbar scene in Dune. B ut I can't recommend it as an approach, because it is difficult to pull off successfully. His son, carrying on the Dune series, has tried to emulate his father's style and fails miserably with the POV switching.

    I'd recommend sticking with a single POV through the scene, then using post-reactions of the other POVs to show their perspective. If you must replay the scene, use an explicit section or chapter break because of the discontinuity in time.
     
  14. rogue writer

    rogue writer New Member

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    I completelty agree w/ Cog.
     
  15. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Alive in the Superunknown

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    Funny, the first thing that popped into my mind was Herbert's handling of the dinner party scene from Dune, where Tuek and Kynes almost come to blows.

    Definitely read his stuff, he's great at that.
     
  16. bry2882

    bry2882 New Member

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    First im pretty new, so this is kind of a beginners question:

    Im writting a fictional story, and I'd like to write in first person point of view. But im thinking that it might be hard to get all angles of the story from just my main character's voice. Is it common to write in first person but from... say, 3 or 4 alternating characters?

    I was thinkn of it like this: each chapter would be labled by the characters name that was ”speaking”, and through the story it would bounce around between a few different characters.

    It seems as though ive seen this style before, I just cant think of a specific example. So is it common?
     
  17. Frusciante

    Frusciante New Member

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    Most point-of-view switching stories are in 3rd person limited narrative, focusing on one particular character, but I think it could be pulled off in 1st person. It all depends on how you segue chapters, I'd say.
     
  18. E. C. Scrubb

    E. C. Scrubb Active Member

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    I have never written in first person, but I've beta'ed at least one 1st person story where they did exactly what you were saying. A big landmine to avoid, is making all your characters have a similar voice. Because you're inside their heads, hearing their thoughts, make sure that they have very different thought patterns, or think about different things.


    So, if a there is a scene where a car runs a stoplight and hits another car, what would each of the characters think? How would they describe that scene in ways that are unique to that character?

    Would Johny's POV be: I turned instantly, hearing the tires scream against the pavement, and saw the 67 mustang T-bone the little Honda - metal on plastic is never a fair fight.
    Would Annie's POV be: The godawful noise caught my attention and I turned just in time. The fear etched on both of their faces is something I will never forget, it was the same look my mother had the night we were hit. It was the last of hers I ever saw.

    (Warning - slight swearing to make a point of POV changes).

    Then Jack's POV would have to be different from both of theirs: Damn, I know that sound. Screw this, I thought to myself and threw the roses down. If Sarah doesn't understand, screw her too. The people in those cars may be dying. Damn! Damn! Damn! On my friggen day off too. I reached into my coat and didn't even bother with 911, but called Bobby directly. "Dude, get your ass in the wagon and down to 41st and Jefferson. . . ."

    I'd also make sure the POV changes weren't abrupt, and made sense. One last thing, (and if others disagree with me, take their opinion instead, as I don't have enough experience here, except for reading), don't revisit the same exact scene from multiple POV's. I don't mean don't change a POV, then go back and relive the last few lines of the previous scene, just to pick up where you left off from a different POV. What I mean is, readers will get board reading the same scene multiple times, unless you're doing something very specific with it and one POV sees something very, very different in the scene, like say, a man in a cheap suit that keeps appearing as things blow up, but no one else can see him except for one character.
     
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  19. Morkonan

    Morkonan New Member

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    Writing such a story might seem like fun, right? But, what about reading it?

    Picture this - Your reader settles down with your novel. They start reading and get wrapped up in the first character. That character does things. That character has experiences. That character's story progresses. Then, the come across the next character and the story starts over. The character experiences many things, most of which relate to the same story. But, the reader has to go back in a time-machine to the start of the action or is otherwise separated from what they liked in the original character's story. Then, it's on to another character, with different views, but within the same story. Back and forth they go, where it stops... is likely to end up being where the book is thrown in the garbage can. Unless it is done well, that is. Do it well and you'll probably be rewarded. Do it poorly and your adventurous style of multiple first-person views will fail, horribly.

    As a writer, instead of trying to rely on this gimmick, what you should be doing is finding the character with the most interesting story and telling it from their point of view. If you can't find one and don't want to leave the others behind, then it's off to the Third-Person, Omniscient point of view table. That is why it's so darn popular - Third-Person, Omniscient affords you the opportunity to tell everyone's story, from their point of view, without any gimmicky First-Person hijinks.

    There could be a calling for multiple First-Person views, but only if you construct the story and the scenes so that they compliment that unique writing mechanic. You'll need to work on specifically building the story so that it meshes naturally with First-Person views from multiple perspectives. You'll have to easily be able to distinguish Narrators, locations, time-lines, scenes, sub-plots, the whole bit. That won't be easy. It can be done, for sure. But, it's not going to be easy to do for one story.

    One of my favorite Anthologies, "Thieve's World", has multiple authors tracing their characters through a shared plot, sometimes even giving a fresh perspective on scenes their character shares with the character of another writer. It's really a wonderful read and the city of Sanctuary is very flushed out, by the time the series hits its stride. But, many of the inclusions are their own stories, their own plots and characters, and many do not closely interact with the plots of others. So, that wouldn't be likely to be a good model for a book with a single story.

    There have been many books that have done what you suggest. But, they do it in different ways, mostly in episodic or anthology format and mostly using an overarching plotline that spans multiple editions, but has many different characters and subplots contained within it. I'm sure that there are plenty in classic literature, but the titles escape me, at the moment. Why is that? Well, they're not really popular, that's why. :)
     
  20. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Alive in the Superunknown

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    I've got a novel in mind with varying PoVs. I'm planning on one view being third-person omniscient, and the other being first-person from a secondary character's view -- think Nick Carraway in the Great Gatsby. I figure such an approach, with the two PoVs being inherently distinct, will minimize (if not eliminate) reader confusion, and at the same time allow me the freedom as author to both investigate details that no one character would know, while at the same time give me a platform (in the voice of a character) for giving opinions without getting preachy.

    At least, that's my hope. The worst that can happen is that the effort doesn't succeed. That's okay. Not every creative endeavor does. If I don't try, it has exactly no chance.
     
  21. prettyprettyprettygood

    prettyprettyprettygood Active Member

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    I read a book written like this recently, Innocent Traitor by Alison Weir. I think the style suited the story in that case because there was a lot of plotting amongst a small group of people so it was interesting to see plans unfold through everyone's eyes (the book is about what happened to Lady Jane Grey, the author is a historian). That said, I wouldn't choose this style just because it seems easier- it will actually be very difficult to pull off effectively, and even then as has been pointed out the style could still put people off.
     
  22. GoldenGhost

    GoldenGhost Senior Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, and there's a chance that I am, because I haven't read the novel for quite some time, but Faulkner's As I Lay Dying, is written with first person POV's with each chapter being a different character's interpretation, as to what lead up to the mother's death.
     
  23. bry2882

    bry2882 New Member

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    Awesome feedback. Thanks to everyone. I think I may attempt it. I was not planning on having the plot overlap through chapters, so Im hoping it wont feel too repetitive, as Morkonan warned about.

    And E C had a great point about establishing different "voices" for each character. I'll def keep that in mind.

    Its a bit relieving to know that this has been done, and apparently pulled off. I think I'll go forward, testing it out for at least a few chapters. If I have to go back and re-write them then so be it.

    Thanks again.
     
  24. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

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    "Game of thrones" by George R.R. Martin does something like that. It's in 3rd person, but each chapter is from the perspective of a different character. I don't see why you couldn't do the same with first person. As long as each character has a unique perspective and brings different things to the table. That's the only thing you might have trouble with. I've experimented with first person before, and i've found that to write well in first person, it has to be colored by emotion, and to color it with emotion, you have to put yourself in each situation that you're writing, otherwise it falls flat and seems like your character didn't really care about what was going on. To do that with 3 or 4 different perspectives may be difficult. I definitely think it's worth a shot tho!
     
  25. Scott Berman

    Scott Berman New Member

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    Its been years since I read them, but I believe Animorph's were written like that, and I'm pretty sure that is part of what made them appeal to me as a young teen. It can really help a reader connect to the characters if done well. The books are pretty short being that their for young readers, so you might want to check them out.
     

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