The Point of View questions thread

Discussion in 'Point of View, and Voice' started by SB108, Jul 8, 2007.

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  1. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    Funny I should trip over this thread. I picked up the comments from one of my latest beta readers today, and she says she's pretty sure that general writing convention forbids POV swaps inside a single chapter, even when marked off by a break (#). That isn't what I've observed, and I'm not going to rewrite the whole book to keep each chapter to a single POV. But I will go back and make sure it's obvious from the first of each scene whose head we're in.

    To answer the OP's question, I think doing it that way is smoother than heading each scene with the POV character's name. The latter would draw too much attention to itself, IMHO. I could see getting away with it in a courtroom novel, maybe, but not in a romance.
     
  2. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    @Catrin Lewis isn't it funny how people pick up these non "rules" and then judge others' work by them?!
     
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  3. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I have read a book where it swaps between two characters every chapter, without much indication as to the change. Personally, I hated it. But your Beta is wrong on one fact. Nothing is forbidden in writing.
     
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  4. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I don't really feel qualified to offer any insight or wisdom on this matter, so I'll just say this: Arkady & Boris Strugatsky use POV headers for each change in their sci-fi classic Roadside Picnic, and it didn't lift me from the story in any way shape or form.
     
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  5. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I think it's possible to get away with head hopping to a small degree, even within a chapter, as long as it's made very clear whose head we're temporarily in. I don't think anybody other than another writer will notice, as long as it's not done often enough to become difficult to follow, or distracting because we're in too many heads at once.

    However, what does start to get problematic is when a person knows exactly what somebody else is feeling or thinking. Or even more bizarrely, can see what they themselves look like at a given moment, such as knowing their own face has gone pale (without a mirror handy), or that their eyes are flashing fire, or whatever.

    These are pitfalls to be careful of, not rules that must be followed. They can certainly be broken. But it's a good idea to be aware of them, and be aware of their potential effect on readers if you choose to use them.
     
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  6. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Yes - that's exactly right.

    I do use name headers when I change character but that's also because my style changes too. I write one character in first person and the other, in third person omni. The omni allows me to explore the thoughts of multiple characters and the first person allows me to emotionally bring the reader into the story.

    Getting around the person seeing them self flush/go pale etc is ok if it's an emotion that you fan feel rather than see - or that you can have another character see.

    I'm currently experimenting with about five character changes, which are all written from third person except for the main female mc (she's in first person) which is allowing me to follow the story of how four different character arcs affect the one female, all seen from their own perspectives. Apart from the usual tightening up and deletion of repetitiveness, the beta came back in favour of the way it was written - so we shall see!
     
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  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Good luck. Experimenting with new styles is a lot of fun, but can be scary, too. Sounds like you've pulled it off.
     
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  8. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Thanks - I really hope so because I feel I couldn't tell the story any other way.
     
  9. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    After some reflection I think I'm going back to one chapter, one POV. I've tried, but I'm not comfortable doing it this way.
     
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  10. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Or, if you have time, do the first three chapters in different ways and see which you like best.

    I started writing everything in third person and after struggling (and losing the first full chapter due to a computer glitch) I started again in first person. Felt a lot more comfortable for that character and that story. It wasn't until a full chapter after the introduction of the second MC that I realized I needed to tell his side of the story at the same time, but in a different way to the first MC's.

    Only you know the best way to tell your story, but there's nothing stopping you experimenting with it.
     
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  11. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    @cutecat22 Good advice; that's what I've done. There are definitely restrictions with confining myself to one POV for a certain length of time, but it's a good challenge and I think it's more immersive than switching after a thousand words or so. Maybe another book will be better suited to more POV experimenting!
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I aimed at one POV per chapter, but because each chapter tells a story unto itself, there were a few instance where I had to use two POVs to get that part of the story told. I did make it very clear who the POV characters were at the start of the shift scene, and so far nobody has objected to the shift. I only did this a few times.

    I think you do what works, don't you?
     
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  13. PGWhyte

    PGWhyte Member

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    Im a little stuck, i wrote my novella in first person. It felt natural, only 2 characters for some part then 4, and back to 3. Wasnt so bad but did feel restricted when writing.
    For my book, which links up with my novella at some point, im planning to use third person. Lots more characters involved, and possibility of jumping someone else in the world appeals.

    Is it ok to jump between first and third for different books but all based in the same universe?

    I dont want to start and have to re write in a different perspective, so looking for some input if poss.
     
  14. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    @PGWhyte I don't see any issue with that. Some readers have a preference but I think it's rarely rare for someone to only read first or only read third. So it shouldn't upset your novella fans. :D
     
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  15. PGWhyte

    PGWhyte Member

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    Im finding it hard to write in third now :mad:
     
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  16. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    It's like going from an automatic car to a manual. After a few drives, it'll feel natural again.
     
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  17. PGWhyte

    PGWhyte Member

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    Haha, which one is first?o_O
     
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  18. froboy69

    froboy69 Member

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    I see advantages to 3rd over 1st. Hell I can't imagine when exactly I'll write in 1st person but I have to keep an open mind. Then again, WHICH IS FIRST???? o_O
     
  19. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    First puts me right in the action, which can be nice, but when I'm that close to the story, even small mistakes can kick me out of the story.

    There's a bit of distance between the story and reader in 3rd person, gives more wiggle room for mistakes and whatnot.
     
  20. Likas

    Likas New Member

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    George R.R. Martin once explained that he used third person because the scope of his stories is very large and he needs many characters to write them. I always use third person for the same reason, I think you can add so much more to your story when you can portray the thoughts and actions and words of many different characters.
     
  21. Zombocalypse

    Zombocalypse Member

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    Third person...

    Because I'm used to it. No further reasons.
     
  22. SKeyes

    SKeyes New Member

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    I love writing in first and third person, but I slightly prefer third person. This is because I am not very good at describing the inner thoughts of a person.

    I think it is more interesting to not know about those things too. It is like a game for the readers to understand the actions and the emotions behind the action.

    Then again, I might just be a little inexperienced...
     
  23. wrigby paige

    wrigby paige New Member

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    Third person limited since it's easier to step into someone else's shoes without your own thoughts conflating their story. There's less ego involved, at least for me.
     
  24. EnginEsq

    EnginEsq Member

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    My favorite author, Cordwainer Smith, wrote many of his works with the narrator as storyteller. I've never had them read to me. but I image in it would work well. I have always loved how Norstrillia opens (from www.cordwainer-smith.com/norstrilia.htm):
     
  25. Lady Fickle

    Lady Fickle Member

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    I usually need to make a clear distinction between my character and me, especially in roleplaying. She is my creation and I can put her through ordeals I will not be able to cross. However, I am blogging in third person as well - and the blog is my own journal, based entirely on myself. Still, it's nice to look at yourself sidelong.
     

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