The 'Rules' of writing.

You could post responses that say whether you'd read on or not and just leave it at that. So then your posts would set an example of the way you think the thread should function.

 

Yeah, that's what I would try to do. Of course I would say why I think so (if that's what you're thinking) but what I wouldn't want to do is expect too much of the opening three sentences. The statement has been made earlier in this thread, and discussed, to some extent, about how a reader has to care about the characters, etc etc. My point is that no, they don't—not at that point. They can, of course, but it's not necessary. The readers just need to want to keep reading. Something in those first three sentences needs to be intriguing enough to make reading sentence four and five seem worth while, but there will be much more to follow. Hopefully, anyway.

 

This is true. And each read on the 'rules' needs to be made in context with what the author is attempting to do. Generally I like to spout my 'rules' advice with a good does of the whys. In particular the whys related to why it ain't working so well for the writing in question.

 

I'd read that for a dollar!

 

Good morning everyone.

I watched a video and gave me this idea for this post. Here tell us the rules of your favourite artists for success, it doesn't necessarily need to be a writer, can be a painter, comic artist, painter, sculptor, musician, president, anyone you can remember. Please see the caveat below....

I will start with Neil Gaiman:

 

Speaking as a Mod here: It would make sense, as this is a writing forum, for these advice-givers to be writers, as Neil Gaiman is a writer. Otherwise this could stray WAY off topic. However, if the offerings stay within 'writers' who have advice for success in life, then it's a fine inspirational idea, in my opinion. There is some danger that this thread will end up duplicating other threads in this section (which we are trying to keep as unchaotic as possible)—which might result in the thread eventually being closed—but let's play it for a while and see what happens.

 

Here's insight into how to build and maintain success as a writer, from a very successful one. (Whose blog is well worth following.) And no, the 'Jan' who is the first commentor on this blog entry is NOT me!

https://www.joeabercrombie.com/2011/09/14/structure/

 

Sorry if I create something unnecessary. This will not happen again. I will change only to be for writers.

 

That's no problem as it is. You don't really need to change it. And I do really like the idea.

 

Author of the books Maps of Meanings, 12 Rules for Life and Political Correctness Gone Mad. Clinical psychologist and professor of psychology, one of the leading scientists in psychology. Jordan P. Peterson in the same series as opening speech.

 

I've quickly become a huge fan of Jordan Peterson. I've never seen him ruffled, he tackles difficult and controversial problems head on, and debates with extreme intelligence.

 

I tried reading 'The Blade Itself' a few years back and couldn't finish it. Perhaps it deserves a revisit...

 

Well, no author is everybody's cup of tea. There are quite a few authors out there whom lots of people like, and I have never really been able to get into them. They're good writers, but they're just not me.

 

I loved every part of this video. All very true. Thanks for sharing it,

 

No problem. That's why sharing is good.

 

The thing is there really aren't rules for success. Hard work and luck mean everything. It's nice to hear how other people got to where they are, but we're all on a different course. I do like how the guy in the first video says how it's important to just enjoy the success and not always be thinking about the next story or the next deadline and so forth. I'm going to try and do that more. I'm not super successful, but years of hard work and nothing but rejection are starting to pay off a bit. I need to be happy with that and just know that my best work hasn't even been imagined yet. And that's okay. Our accomplishments no matter how big or small call for celebrations. We all work hard and when things start to turn out in our favor it's worth taking the time to enjoy it. I've accomplished more than I thought I would. Still, I have a bad habit of thinking I always need to be working to climb higher. I'm in a good spot. Enjoying it for awhile won't hurt anything. That's the biggest takeaway for me.

 

I always read writing articles and see rule after rule, most of them conflicting. Don’t give too much detail but give lots of detail. Don’t use extravagant words but make sure you use interesting ones. It’s gotten to the point that, when I’m writing, my mind is frantically trying to put all these rules into practice!! It’s exhausting!

What do you guys think? Should we have no rules in writing, or are there some you have to stick to?

 

People who religiously care about rules are boring. Write what you wanna write, and if it sucks too much to get published, either don't bother publishing or suck up to the publisher.

 

As long as it sounds good, I don't care.

 

If you read many reviews of books on websites, you'll barely notice criticism of passive voice (for instance) or most of the higher rules that are "laid down" by the elitist gatekeepers of the English language. Spelling (and sometimes grammar) are the only ones that tend to make everyday people sit up and notice on a recurring level.
While I'm not saying you shouldn't try to be great at grammar or the more obvious tenants to getting your points across, what I am saying is you need to concentrate on getting the points across first, over worrying about rules as you write. The imagery you want, the feelings you want, the actions you want, and the dialogue you want. The key is getting what is in your head down on the keyboard and for that, there are no rules.
Write first, care about rules later in editing; and even then, you will never reach "perfection" in the rules - because many of the more elitist rules are different for everyone. No matter how good you are at the English language, you will never, ever, perfect a book, ever. Someone will always disagree on a rule somewhere on interpretation.

That's why Da Vinci said it best "Art is never finished, only abandoned."

 

There is a lot to be said for that old adage: Write without fear; edit without mercy.

If you're so afraid of breaking rules that you get to the point where you can't write, then I think you're in trouble.

As @Steve Rivers said, basically, get what's in your head down on paper or on screen. Write the story you would like to read. In that sense, write for yourself. The story has to please you, if it's going to have any life to it. Get it done, and don't worry about it.

Once it's done, then you start to make it into something somebody else will want to read. I don't like the notion of 'rules.' What I like is the notion of 'tools and tricks.'

For example, detail is a tool. What can detail do to improve your story? What kind of impact do you want your details to make on the reader? A good use of detail can make the reader learn something painlessly. Or make a scene come to life by creating a picture in the reader's mind. Can help settle a scene, or make an event memorable. Also learn what the pitfalls of too much detail can be—it can distract from the story OR put the reader to sleep. However, too little detail can make the story seem flat. Figure out what detail does. Then use what you've learned to improve your story.

The basic tools of the writer's trade are spelling, grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, and an ability to be coherent with words. It's going to be difficult to become a successful writer if you don't have these already in your tool box. A few of these kinds of mistakes can certainly be corrected during an edit, but it's going to be hard to write at all if you don't have basic competence with SPAG tools. But if you've been educated to a reasonable standard, you should be good to go.

The reason I say this with confidence is that I have written a novel ...and I wrote my entire first draft without ever consulting a 'how-to' book or course or manual or magazine. I just sat down at our new computer one day and started writing a story that had begun to form in my head. I spent 5 years writing and researching that first draft (it is a LONG novel), and I can honestly say nothing has ever given me so much pleasure. I was a voracious reader all my life, and did have a BA in English (Lit) under my belt. But I had never taken a course in creative writing in my life, and had never seriously attempted to write anything before.

I made every 'rule' mistake there is. Once I did get hold of some 'rule' books, I started to learn how to improve my story (which needed a lot of improvement!) but I didn't start doing any of that till after I was 'done.' If I had started out with reams of rules to write by, I would never have got out of the starting gate. I know this for sure.

Forget rules. Just write. All the rules in the world are not going to give you enthusiasm, confidence, that joy of creating that you'll have if you just dive in, without fear, and make your story come to life. Use your storytelling instinct. Say what matters to you, however it comes out. Don't edit. Don't skimp. Don't worry. Just write. You can trim and shape and polish it later.

 

Having never taken a writing class or read a book on writing in my life, I am blissfully unaware of any "rules" other than "show, don't tell".

I'm inclined to just ignore rules I don't like... officer.