Today I learned...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Louanne Learning, Nov 24, 2023.

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  1. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Today I learned that before COVID, Australia used to be a great country. (COVID, and the attendant racism and egotism of the last few years, destroyed this country ... or at least this corner of it). =(

    But this happened about 4.5 years ago, in the small town of Googong, New South Wales (Australia). Way before COVID. Our then-Prime Minister was giving a press conference, when this happened.



    This has to be the most Aussie thing ever. ;)

    It's funny 'cos it's true. Summers in small towns can be notoriously dry and dusty. Also, if you'd just re-seeded your lawn, would you like it if a whole bunch of people came and churned it into dust?

    The best part: everyone was very respectful. No nonsense like "Don't you know who we are?" etc. This is how politics should be. :D
     

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  2. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Today I learned about seven-league boots – magical boots that allow the person wearing them to take strides of seven leagues per step, resulting in great speed.

    These seven-league boots are mentioned as early as the 17th century, in the fairy tales of Charles Perrault. They are known world-wide, and appear in many, many stories, including the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm.
     
  3. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Yep, I remember reading about these things in a Brothers Grimm story as a kid. (A league is three miles, so seven leagues is 21 miles or about 34 kilometers.)

    Mention of the legendary boots are found in:

    - Charles Perrault's Hop o' My Thumb from France
    - Peter Christen Asbjørnsen and Jørgen Moe's Soria Moria Castle from Norway
    - Jack the Giant Killer, Howl's Moving Castle, The Midnight Folk and The Bartimaeus Trilogy from England
    - Sweetheart Roland and Goethe's Faust (Mephistopheles uses them at the start of Part Two, Act Four) from Germany

    I will also never forget how Sir Terry Pratchett made fun of them in The Light Fantastic, one of his earliest books...

     
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  4. That Guy Named Aaron

    That Guy Named Aaron Active Member

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    Not only was George Michael a fan of Joy Division, but in an interview said Closer was one of his favorite albums.
     
  5. That Guy Named Aaron

    That Guy Named Aaron Active Member

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    I recall a book that was read to us in elementary school about kids who had boots that had the ability to stride long distances, but I don't remember if it was a fairy tale or something more modern (but I'm kinda pushing for the latter).
     
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  6. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Today I learned that although preservation of food using tin cans had been practiced since at least 1772 in the Netherlands, the first can openers were not patented until 1855 in England and 1858 in the United States.

    That's right; us humans developed steam-powered ships, pistols, and more efficient rifles before we developed an efficient tool for opening those darned cans. Gosh, ain't humanity neat? :bigtongue:

    And people wonder why I think that the human race is messed up ...
     
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  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Chipped can opener blades are our #1 health code violation. Dented cans are not monitored much in my jurisdiction, but I hear they are huge in other places. The NYC health department, from what I've heard, fines restaurants for every dented can on premise. RI doesn't have a DOH monetary fine system, but if they did, they'd be raking it in.
     
  8. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Today I learned that in the early 1870s, 11-year-old Ellen Woodman was sentenced to 7 days hard labour at Newcastle City Gaol for stealing iron.

    https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/youngest-criminal/

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I had to Google to find out what this meant

    Hard labor in 19th century English prisons included the treadmill, shot drill, crank machine, and other labor-intensive tasks.
    Examples of hard labor
    • Treadmill: A large paddle wheel with steps around a cylinder that prisoners turned for punishment
    • Shot drill: A form of penal labor
    • Crank machine: A form of penal labor
    • Water pump: Prisoners were sometimes sentenced to work a water pump
    • Dredging the Thames: Men incarcerated in the hulks dredged the Thames
    • Naval dockyards: Men incarcerated in the hulks worked in the naval dockyards
    • Ballast lighters: Prisoners were sometimes sentenced to work on ballast lighters
    • Oakum-picking: Prisoners teased apart old rope to make caulking material for sailing vessels
    • Carrying cannonballs: Prisoners were sometimes punished by carrying cannonballs
    Purpose of hard labor
    Hard labor was intended to reform offenders by teaching them to be industrious, and to deter others from committing crime.

    Hard labor is also known as punitive labor, convict labor, or prison labor.
     
  10. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, that treadwheel was no joke, especially for people dependent on their bodies to earn a living after serving their sentences. Oscar Wilde did his time at that.
     
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  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    It's always hard labour. Nobody ever gets like, five months light admin work.
     
  12. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Today I learned that, while Robert Falcon Scott and Roald Amundsen were making their attempts at the South Pole (in which Amundsen beat Scott, who died on the way back), Japan also had its first Antarctic expedition underway, led by Shirase Nobu. He and his men actually met the crew of the Fram, Amundsen's men in the Bay of Whales, where Amundsen had landed. The Norwegians were impressed by the Japanese crew's determination and pluck, but less so by their tiny ship and poor preparation.
     
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  13. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    An interesting bit of history that was left out of the common narrative
     
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  14. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    The expedition was completely ignored by the Royal Geographical Society, who didn't even mention it, and in Japan, Emperor Meiji died a month after they got back, so they were overshadowed.
     
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  15. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    "There was a great treadmill. It didn't power anything, and had particularly creaky bearings. It was one of Astfgl's more inspired ideas, and had no use whatsoever except to show several hundred people that if they had thought their lives had been pretty pointless, they hadn't seen anything yet."
    ("Eric", Terry Pratchett)

    I read that in the 18th and 19th centuries, almost any crime was punishable by either death or hard labour. Especially stealing bread. And don't even think about stealing a lace handkerchief. People who did that were posh.
     
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  16. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Up to a point. The limit was about 5 shillings or 12 pence, although benefit of clergy was sometimes available, and by 1823, capital offences were limited to a couple of dozen compared to the 18th century. Many of those criminals ended up in Australia.
     
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  17. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Uh, hold on a minute. 5 shillings is twelvepence? I thought 12 pennies made one shilling, not five. (12 pennies to a shilling, 20 shillings to a Pound). :)

    Benefit of Clergy ... GRR. Another instance where the rich get off scot-free. :mad: Why should some bastard of a priest get away with stealing, just because he can recite the Lord's Prayer? What do those two have to do with each other? The whole thing makes no sense.

    Yep, lots of crims ended up in Australia ... and many in Canada or America, as indentured servants. ;) Many ended up on the gallows, too.
     
  18. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    No, from 12p to 5 shillings, depending on time period and offence.

    Because priests were entitled to be tried under ecclesiastic law, which had less severe punishment. But by the late 18th century, it had become a legal fiction which meant anyone could plead benefit of clergy if they could recite Psalm 51 (known as the Neck Verse), so you just had to memorise it to avoid the death penalty.

    No, criminals were transported, but not as indentured servants. That was almost all voluntary, a way for emigrants to pay for their passage across the Atlantic.
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    People tend to forget we had penal colonies in the Americas prior to the war of independence
     
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  20. That Guy Named Aaron

    That Guy Named Aaron Active Member

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    After six months of having to do someone else's light administrative work, I'd take six months of hard labor.
     
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  21. Gravy

    Gravy aka Edgy McEdgeFace Contributor Game Master

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    I learned something today...
    I know nothing about this. Please tell me more!
     
  22. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717

    Australia came later, in 1787.
     
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  23. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Sorry, hold on; I'm confused. Criminals were transported, but not as indentured servants? What was their status, then?

    Also, according to the "Piracy Act of 1717", the wikipedia page reads:

    (emphasis mine).

    All right, I'm aware that not all transportees became indentured servants. Did any of them become slaves?

    (And yes, I know the vast majority of slaves were black. But many slaves were white too, especially in the Barbary States).
     
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  24. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Many of them were resettled in penal colonies, where they were supposed to remain until their sentences were over. They'd have to either carry out their sentence, if it was hard labour, but even if it wasn't, they still had to farm and provide for themselves.

    Transportation was not always permanent. Some were prohibited from returning for seven or fourteen years, depending on their crime - doing so would get them the death penalty, if caught. But if they returned, they had to make their own way back - a lot of them lacked the means to do so, so they remained where they were.

    By contrast, indentured servants had a contract (which was not always enforced properly), at the end of which, they were free. They had food and lodgings provided for them, although they weren't paid - their labour went towards repayment of their transport costs.

    Transportees weren't indentured. They were criminal convicts serving a sentence. They didn't need to reimburse the Crown for sending them there in the first place. Some - like those on the First Fleet - were sent explicitly to establish colonies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2025
  25. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    No. Indenture was a fixed contract, although they were sometimes charged exorbitant interest rates to keep them indentured for longer than they should have been, they could be punished for leaving their contract holder, and the contracts could be passed on or sold, and some of the contract holders flogged them, along with the slaves. But they weren't chattel - the contract was the thing that bound them, they themselves were not property. Their children weren't born into indenturement.

    I caution you to be careful when discussing indentured servants. The whole thing is very controversial, because a lot of it has been perpetuated by "Lost Cause" proponents to try and draw an equivalence between chattel slavery and indenturement, to "prove" that "oh, slavery wasn't racist because there were white slaves too".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

    Yes, in practise, the conditions of slaves and indentured servants were often very similar, but their legal status was different.

    I'm talking specifically about trans-Atlantic slavery and the North American colonies here, not about Arab or Ottoman slavery, which are different subjects altogether. And out of deference to American members of the forum, I won't go into that part of the argument any further. I'm already in the dog house with one set of mods, I don't care to be here as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2025

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