See I have a very vague memory from early in high school of being told it was single for speech and double for quotations which is why I am finding this confusing. I don't really want to have to take it out, I like the image created, and want it to feel like Nate is really there. And that closing ' quote from Mammamaia's I think may be a typo - it doesn't have a place there that I can see. Think the thread confusion indicates it is confusing lol Italics will solve that. They might be wrong but they will allow me to keep wording and not be confusing.
She is assuming that the passage is itself within dialogue, so the closing quote mark is closing the dialogue. I think her version is fine. I think the quote marks in your later version are fine too, but I reckon you should do something about the sentence fragment 'I smile, the memory of him giving that last out of tune note every morning then dragging me out of bed.' Sentence fragments can work, but I don't think that one does. In part it's confusing because British English doesn't seem to have clear rules. Just be clear and consistent (don't get your conventions from Finnegan's Wake) and it's unlikely to be make-or-break for your manuscript.
It really depends on how stylised the dialogue is. All dialogue in fiction is stylised to some extent, because truly naturalistic dialogue would be all but unreadable. You can't actually hear the punctuation in genuine speech, and the pauses don't match (modern) punctuation anyway, so the punctuation in dialogue is always contrived. The more complex the sentence structure (and so the more you need to depend on complex punctuation) the less like real spoken sentences the dialogue is going to be. That depends on where you want to pitch along the casual/literary scale.
Thanks - the sentence fragment can be fixed, it was more how to handle this without changing the idea. Nate breaking into his mind and saying things, him remembering things is an important part of the story. I tend to find I use more sentence fragments when I am writing Socrates thoughts and then take them out later it seems to work for giving him a flow to his inner dialogue somehow. No idea why it works lol Unless you speak RP when reading and have speech training lol In which case the ; does give an idea of the length of pause.
yes, that was a typo... the extra ' should not have been there... only closing ' would be after 'say'... like this: as for italics, i don't see how they could possibly be used correctly here...
why would the ' be after the say ? This is dialogue with Fyren (the other man in the room) 'The only predictable thing about a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus.' (this ' is the correct one) This is reminiscing I smile at the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. Then he would drag me out of bed. This is a quotation ''You don't want to miss the best bit of the day,'' he would say.' (this one is not correct) All I want to know is should it the quotation be in a seperate paragraph and should it being a quotation rather than dialogue have ' or ". It is a thought/rememberance and if italics make it clearer for the reader then I think it is worth putting in.
It depends on whether the whole thing is something the narrator is saying, in which case it's as Mammamia put it in that last post, or whether "I smile at the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. Then he would drag me out of bed." is narration rather than dialogue, in which case the dialogue presumably starts up again somewhere and the closing quote will be needed once you've decided where the dialogue restarts and put an opening quote there.
Its first person point of view its narration except the dialogue. In the original paragraph the dialogue is the part the speech marks round it. I put the quotation in '' the rest is thought/narration- I am still no clearer about how to handle it, which tells me there doesn't seem to be a convention for it.
I would certainly have the speaker in the room's dialogue on a different line, as the narrative changes focus after this. IMO, can be confusing if you don't do this. I also didn't understand the "dragging out of bed" bit at first. Not 100% I understand even now, but I've amended it to be clearer (to how I understand your meaning) as below. Oh, and I try to avoid using "then" like the plague--the context should make the sequence clear, not clunky signal words like "then/next etc." Hope this helps. Personally, I wouldn't bother having the memory like a direct quote, as per the second example. Take care! 'The only predictable thing about a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus.' I smile, the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. It was always followed by him dragging me out of bed. ''You don't want to miss the best bit of the day,'' he would say. OR 'The only predictable thing about a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus.' I smile, the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. It was always followed by him dragging me out of bed. 'You don't want to miss the best bit of the day,' he would say.
Thank you Madhoca - yes that is the post I needed lol The dragging out of bed is clearer in context (his partner used to cartwheel round the bed singing - Nate was part sparrow so he got out of bed with his version of a dawn chorus, annoying my MC ). Then will probably come out later this is still an unedited piece but I think this issue will come up again because I need Nate to feel alive.
your original post was confusing... it seemed as if the part you are asking about is a quote within a quote... and that's what i addressed in my post... but if the main part of that excerpt is only narrative, with a quoted line of dialog inserted within it, then the outer ' ' wouldn't be used... and if following british rules, the quoted part would be in ' ' and not " "...
I'd still love to know where this "rule" comes from, because I can't find any consistency on this in books published in Britain.
I've never heard it either just personally find using ' easier when typing. And I am still sure I was taught at school that it was single quotes for dialogue and double quotes for quotations, which is why I was confused.
What I find confusing is that the first set of quotation marks are used for dialogue that is being spoken to another person - the second set of quotation marks are silent - thoughts in the mind. I don't think double quotation marks are used for thoughts about dialogue. I think it is correct to still use single quotation marks. So unless she mentions that it is thoughts and she is not speaking out loud there is the possibility of ambiguity. I therefore think it would be better to reword the piece.
It's still speech. The fact that it isn't uttered, the narrator just thought about it being uttered, is a red herring. He said "Send reinforcements, we're going to advance." I thought he said "Send three-and-fourpence, we're going to a dance."Punctuated just the same, even though the second sentence wasn't actually uttered, only thought.
Yes, I think it would serve well as a paragraph. And really I don't think you need to add much more to what you have above. The only predictable thing about life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus. (insert perhaps a line or two of Nate's favorite song or hymn) I smiled, the memory of that last out of tune note every morning, then he would drag me out of bed. "You don't want to miss the best bit of the day." He would say." But of course you can do what you want lol
I understand that. What I am saying is that because she/he is initially talking to someone and then drifts off into thoughts with dialogue in quotations marks he/she could be confused as speaking back out loud to the person in the room. Therefore I think in order to make this piece more straightforward it needs to be rewritten. Your example above is plain to understand, simply because you say (I thought he said)
I think that would be more easy to understand that the second set of dialogue is in his/her thoughts.
so it just needs He changing to Nate said. The very fact it is said and not say will stand out anyway. 'The only predicatable thing in a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus,' I say to Fy. I smile at the memory of Nate turning cartwheels round the bedroom, whilst belting out his final out of tune note. He followed it up by dragging me out of bed, saying, 'Come on you miserable old fart, you don't want to miss the best bit of the day.' His grin would be infectious, and I would usually join in with the next song.
Yes; I was just addressing the use of quote marks and the fact that it is still speech even if it doesn't get uttered. Clarity is another matter entirely.
I don't really think a major rewrite is called for. I probably wouldn't use this exact phrasing (or present tense) but this is a matter of personal style and preference. I was assuming the identity of the speakers were clear already. If you wanted to avoid any ambiguity at all, no problem--name the speaker. And for thoughts or quotes of this nature, personally, I tend not to use any quotation/speech marks, but as the OP was specifically asking about this, I put them in anyway. Actually, Nate's words are a quote, and the British rule is double quote marks if it's inside dialogue/thought (a kind of internal dialogue)--which has single quote marks. Sometimes single quotes (or even italics, perish the thought) are used if it's an example like this, where Nate's words aren't actually embedded in the protagonist's dialogue or thoughts. In other words, you could end up with a product like: 'The only predictable thing about a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus,' (speaker in room's name) said. I smile, the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. It was always followed by Nate (putting name here makes it a bit clearer I think) dragging me out of bed. You don't want to miss the best bit of the day, he would say. OR 'The only predictable thing about a life with Nate was the timing of his dawn chorus,' (speaker in room's name) said. I smile, the memory of that last out of tune note every morning. It was always followed by Nate (putting name here makes it a bit clearer I think) dragging me out of bed. You don't want to miss the best bit of the day, he would say. (or single quotes, as I gave in my previous post)
