Recently while rewriting/reworking one of my stories I found that I was coming up short on a lot of details after taking out some of the more useless stuff. One of the main details I found I was coming up short on was a tactic for the war. Now it's only one part of the tactic so I'm not promising I'll be great at it. The basic concept of the tactic is to divid the troops, and slowly sneak them into enemy territory via several entrances. The group also planned on paralyzing half of the enemy troops with poison making them unable to battle. They also have the troops divided between those in the enemy territory who are slaves to the treaty and those who are going to invade. Also they were going to get help from another race even if it meant forcing it into happening. Um... that's probably a bad summary of it all (never did war tactics before so I'm not good at summarizing the main points) so I guess if you guys want the full story behind it and stuff I'll post the actual section from the story to see exactly how they discuss it. So yeah, my question here is, does this seem like a good tactic for war? And before you hit me with the "Read more war books/Watch more war movies" I have and after watching twenty plus war movies and reading god knows how many books on war this is what I came up with. So I'm pretty much asking if this seems like something that would be done. And if you suggest something else that might work? Or even see something that won't work? As always I'm always open for questions for more information. Just ask.
Well, okay, something you should look at are Sun Szu quotes. Don't read the book, just read his quotes. Then, think about them. But besides that, read wiki summaries of tactics like Blitzkrieg, and Hedgehog Formation. But anyway, you're talking about deployment of weapons, among other things. These are things like logistics and possibility of allies. You need to read into You need though to figure out the base strategy, and yours right now has problems for the troops. Splitting up an army can be a REALLY bad idea, depending on the circumstances. Defense, it can work to flank or similar stuff, but offensive it's just asking for trouble. Not that a single bunch of troops is good either necessarily. So what is the solution? You need to consider EVERY SINGLE element. What type of enviroment? Urban? Beaches? Countryside? Desert? All of these require completely different tactics. What kind of troops are these? How well trained are they? What's their moral like? What kind of communication technology to they have access to? That matters immensely because it will affect how tactics are coordinated, and therefore which to use. What type of infantry are these? Are they primarily armed with assault rifles, battle rifles, or what? Again, you must consider all these elements.
Tactics depend on environment and technology. What year is it? Where is the battle taking place? How big is the outfit? (Need number of soldiers, tanks, planes, artillery and so on.) With out answers to these we can't help.
I am aware that splitting up an army can be a really bad idea. However, I thought that in order to deliver the army into enemy territory unnoticed it may be best to split the army up. The way it works is that in order to launch a war against the enemy the attacking army (Which I'll call Army A for now) will have to venture through the realm of demons until they reach the inner entrance to Hell. Since the army is not full of demons and they want to go unnoticed until the hour of war. The two Generals (Forgive me if my war termanology is incorrect) and the four Lieutenant Generals held a discussion where they determined that the best way to move the army in unnoticed was to divide their men of 100,000 into smaller groups. Then over the course of several months they would send a group of men into enemy territory in these small groups by using several different entrances into the territory so that the same entrance is not used constantly. It is not a ploy to attack their enemy (Army B in this case) just yet. It's merely a tactic to move the needed troops through the territory without being seen, and without getting added attention. The first environment they go through, I admittedly have not thought entirely about. The environment that they do end up in though is a baren land with extreme heat. It also has lava pools, a volcano, very rugged land that can be difficult to cross. The plan that the Gens and LTGs came up with was to have the troops then meet in a network of caves until all the troops have gathered. Another note about the environment is that these troops are invading Hell, the actual place. So pretty much I've been working off most of what I've read and seen about Hell and what it is believed to look like. The troops are NOT human. The larger mass of the troops (pretty much all but two people) are werewolves. The two people excluded is a fire demon and the Demonic Princess herself. They are well trained because they have been forced into a treaty where their men is taken away at a certain age to service the Devil. There they will remain until their service time is up. So all of them is well trained in war. Except for the Demonic Princess, she's more of a... need to defend case? Though she can fight she is not as skilled as her counter parts. Also, later on in the story/battle the Dark Angels join in the fight because the Devil has been forcing them into a treaty that they did not favor. The Dark Angels pretty much stay to battle in the air unless they are forced to the ground. In terms of the werewolf troops though, there are some pretty old wolves in the mix who join in the fight. Of course I've took note of them running out of stamina and such and have tried to act accordingly to my readings for these figures. Of course, I can't focus on 200,000+ troops (for that is the sum total once everything falls together) so I don't catch all the details. My focus in the battle mainly stays on the three main characters. I honestly didn't think about the moral for this part of the war tactic. In the discussion you see a small bit of conflict between two of the characters when Braxton, one of the LTGs, mistakenly believes that Silver, one of the Gens, was willing to ship a young werewolf child of maybe 14 or so into the war. There is also another bit of show when Silver announces that if the need arises the Leader of the werewolf race has decided to force the hand that means having the Dark Angels as an alliance. To do this though, because he is aware that it may cost the life of one of his kin, the werewolf Leader orders that if the werewolves had to force the hand he would prefer to send someone who is already ordered to be executed then to risk the life of someone who is innocent. None of the Gens or LTGs want to risk any lives when it comes to moving the troops into position. They are aware though that war does come with sacrifices so they try to find ways to work around loosing the most people. Messanger birds, spies, men riding off on horses to alert others, networks. Primal, and I mean medieval primal, means of communication. No fancy guns, no tanks, or any modern day weaponry. They have bows and arrows, swords, staffs, daggers, maces, all the medival weapons that existed at the time. They also have their powers (Mostly the demon and the Demonic Princess and the Dark Angels) that they can use. I do not have a set year actually. I do however have it set in medival times so I am trying my hardest to limit things to that time period. The battle is taking place in Hell. The plan is to attack from the blind side of the castle, the south-southwest side on the rough lands of Hell. (I gave a discription of it in an earlier response to a question). At the castle there are 100,000 werewolves in the Devil's command. Another 100,000 will be marching into Hell for the war. This does not include the four LTGs, the Gens or the GA (General of the Army). Then with the addition of the Dark Angels, they will have close to 250,000 to 300,000 men. And yes, I honestly don't know much about army sizes. I read over a lot of stories, watched a lot of movies and the numbers varied. So a friend suggested that I stick with simple numbers that I can understand (Since I'm bad at math). He then suggested that I have 200,000 werewolves total and anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 Dark Angels. Um there isn't any tanks or anything. I haven't figured out the number of archers and flag barrers and all those small details. (Again I am really horrible at math so if you want to help me out by all means be my guest!! PLEASE) And I know that each person should have at least two weapons and it depends on what kind of weapon they use and... my brain couldn't wrap around the math to well. So... yeah. Trying to cover all the bases I can with my knowledge. Again, I hope this information helps out. I will give more thought into the details I am missing and post them up. Again, if you need me to post the discussion about how they decided to split the troops up and stuff I'll post it. Though I haven't gone over it yet with a fine tooth comb to find all the kinks and mistakes in it. Either way let me know if you need anything else please.
Okay, medivel tactics are COMPLETELY different from modern ones. This means infantry have to be packed together in order to form more effective fighting groups, and because ranged weapons aren't as effective. Magic throws a wild card into this of course, kind of like the weather can in many other battles. Also, the fact you have air cover kind of throws that out the door. What weapons are these dark angels using? 200,000? Okay, that's a LOT of troops to try to figure out their movements and so on. That's 20 divisions, which is quite large to say the least. This is like WW2 battle size, in Hell. Actually pretty cool sounding, however that would be a huge problem to coordinate. Okay, the enviroment of hell huh? Okay, here's the thing, THAT COULD BE ANYTHING! Now, you're taking the traditional approach to describing hell, which means that the weapons they have would have issues. Kind of hard to hit a guy if your sword is melting. Also, you need to figure out what they're going through, which I assume is some kind of entrance to hell. Also, I don't know much about the context of this battle. Why are they fighting in hell? This matters to this because it affects what tactics they are willing to use. Also, I have no idea how the magic works, therefore this affects what advice I can give you for these battles.
I challenge the notion of medieval tactics being different from modern tactics. The scale has changed, but the tactics--and especially strategic considerations--have not. You may be looking at a complete rewrite of your battle, because war just does not happen. War has a cause--a flashpoint. Strategically the two powers should have more than cause to go to war, but the means to do so. Tactics are the least of your worries, the strategic component is where your plot should be. This is because of what General George Patton said: No plan survives an encounter with the enemy. Tactics evolve as the combat evolves, and is never--I repeat never--as any general plans it to be. But, someone did mention Sun Tzu, and the strategic planner does have some comments on tactical considerations. You mention "entrances", which leads me to believe this is a siege. Sun Tzu would tell you to avoid the siege unless absolutely necessary. Instead, go around the stronghold, and occupy its supply lines. Aside that one point... Never divide an army unless your numbers allow for it. If you substantially outnumber the enemy, then dividing your attacking force is OK. But, Sun Tzu--and especially Napoleon--would tell you to keep a force in reserve as opposed to dividing the entire force. Dividing the entire force commits all your assets, where as keeping a reserve commits what is necessary at the time. I haven't more time to devote to this, but, mull it over with a copy of The Art of War, and I would also suggest looking at The Book of Five Rings, by Miyamoto Musashi. Also, study the strategies--not the tactics--of Napoleon, because according to Sun Tzu the battle is won or lost before it begins....
But tactics have to evolve with the battlefield, as you said. Technology alone FORCES immense changes. Fighting with guns, tanks, and other modern weaponry drastically changes how one approaches battles. You think you can fight an army consisting of tanks and mechanized infantry the same way you can fight one with horses and spearmen? The range of battles changes, the way troops can maneavour around changes, along with how quickly they can do it. So, of course tactics have changed. Now, over all strategy? That I'll sort of agree with. Details have changed, but the over all picture has basically remained the same.
Tanks, guns, technology, only changes the scale of the battle. Tactical considerations remain the same: Numbers Range Maneuverability These things are universal. You fight the same way with spears and swords as you do with tanks and planes, because you're fighting an enemy with the same capabilities. Tactics only change substantially when the battle is asymmetric, which is to say when you're fighting an enemy with greater or lesser capabilities than yourself. No matter what weapons you fight with battlefield maneuverability remains just as important, only the scale changes. As opposed to maneuvering in terms of yards you're maneuvering in terms of miles. As opposed to having a front line the length of a valley or mountain pass, your front line extends for hundreds of miles, and may be miles deep. How you maneuver remains the same. Your objective is to catch the enemy at his weakest point; this is universal no matter what weapons you use. Flanking, elevated terrain (air power), frontal assault... these things have never and will never change no matter what new technologies emerge. This is one of the things they teach you at West Point. It is the foundation of all war, because it never changes. General Norman Schwarzkopf took a 3,000 year old battle tactic used by Hannibal... and used it against the Iraqi Republican Guard in 1991 to devastating effect. If the Iraqi commanders had studied the Battle of Canae they would've known what was happening. So, don't tell me tactics change. They do not. Only the greatest generals ever add anything new to the established repertoire of military field command, and most died thousands of years ago. The only modern General to truly add innovative ideas to war was Napoleon, and even then it was 99% strategic application. Tactics still remain unchanged. Even Hitler's Blitzkrieg was nothing more than exemplary application of battlefield maneuvers, nothing new.
Ah, I see. Okay, I get you now. But, doesn't aysmetrical also change things because suddenly a enemy with far inferior force can defeat a numerically and technologically superior enemy? But anyway, okay, you explained that better, i.e. scale.
Getting 100,000 soldiers behind enemy lines without being noticed would be next to impossible even with modern technology. Just splitting up the troops and having them sneak in is a bit unbelievable to me. Im assuming this is going to be the climax so you might want something a little more... fitting for an epic battle in hell. This seems like it might be a perfect time to use a Chekhov's Gun. You also mentioned something about poison. Im just a bit curious how your planning on administering it to the enemies.
Well, chemical weapons anybody? Their tactical uses are quite numerous actually. Maybe that's what he means by poison. As for Chekov's gun, that could mean numerous bits of editing, and possibly Deus Ex Machina if executed poorly.
The same type of weapons as the rest of the troops really, along with what powers they posses. I believe I stated that I didn't know much about troop sizes and that the number was suggested to me because I am NO GOOD at math, and I cannot comprehend numbers easily. So once again, if you feel there is something that should be changed about these numbers then by all means state something more believable. Not to be rude but it'll help me out a lot more in the long run then just being told "That's a lot of troops". I don't comprehend numbers so in my brain 200,000 doesn't register as anything more then a bunch of digits on a screen. In the story you come across several cases where the characters can actually use weapons modified to last in Hell's environment. The very same idea is carried into the final battle. As for how they get these weapons, they're made by a demon who has excellent knowledge in how the weapons of Hell is made. The supplies for these weapons was bought/traded/made/supplied by the werewolves and other parties. Okay, here's the full detail on the entrance thing. They are going to several different points in the human world where caves exist. These caves are passages connected to the Demon World. The Demon World then has passages that can be taken to enter Hell. These passages are also a network of caves. They're not some elaborate portal, they're merely a straight shot passage from one world to the next. Of course I'm aware that these kind of passages doesn't really exist in reality but this is a fantasy novel so I think I can pull a little slack and use this method to create an easier means for the characters. The initial idea is to catch the Devil off guard and attack him before he can attack the werewolves. Since Hell has never been attacked on it's own grounds it was figured that attacking the Devil on his back step (since they attack the castle from the backside - it's blind side) while attacking him when he did not expect it would cause a state of shock that would render him useless for some time. I may be wrong in using this idea but I noticed it seems to appear a lot in more then just war tactics. The initial plan was, each time a new group of soldiers were sent into Hell they would bring fresh supplies with them to support the troops that is already there along with themselves. I'm aware that I'm in need of rewriting my battle. I plan to do so once I get the part about getting the troops into Hell out of the way. Please understand everyone, this isn't the actual battle itself yet (though I will probably bring that up eventually) but merely the transportation of the troops into the expected positions. I need advice on how to get the troops from point A to point B without getting discovered, and without too many casualties. Though I'm glad for any and all other advice on the subject, this is my main concern at the moment. For the most part the supply lines have been secured. The Devil has forced the werewolves into his service via a treaty, it is these werewolves who serve him that work behind the scenes and cover the more obvious war tactics. Ones like the supply line. Therefore, the only thing left is to get the remaining troops into Hell so they can attack. There is 200,000 men at the current moment (unless suggestions bring up other numbers that better suit the situation). 100,000 men are in Hell at the castle playing the puppet, bidding their time until the attack. Another 100,000 men are moving into Hell from the human world. My problem is if you want to go in unnoticed you can't have 100,000 men marching in at once. So I'm trying to find tactics/advice that gives reasonable means to move these 100,000 men from point A to point B without being noticed by the Devil. Without being caught and screwing up the entire thing. Also, without many casualties that would decrease the numbers of the army greatly. I'm aware of this point which is why I'm trying to look for something that can assist me with moving the troops from point A to point B without being noticed. And even if they are noticed, the Devil has forced the werewolves to serve him which means they can use this to their advantage. One such idea was that if the troops were caught they could say that they are coming to the castle to speak with Ryuuk (a high positioned werewolf in charge of the castle defenses) about new types of weapons and recruits. It's known to happen often. Originally I was thinking about having a group of people slipping into the reserve barracks and poisoning the troops in their sleep. But that seems even more far-fetched then slipping 100,000 troops into Hell unnoticed. So after a lot of thought and consideration, I'm thinking about going with the food approach. As in, the poison is slipped into the food of the reserve barracks leaving them paralyzed and unable to battle. Or possibly even killing them. The subject of the poison is still up for debate in my writing but for now I would like to see peoples' ideas/advice/comments on it. Again, please understand guys that I'm mostly looking for a logical, believable way to smuggle 100,000 troops into Hell through the Demon World unnoticed. I am glad to have all the other advice and will be sure to check them out as time permits, but I would mostly like to focus on the transportation aspect. And I'm aware my ideas are not soundly based, when I write them down they can get really out there which is why I'm rewriting/editting to make it more believable and seeking help with my weak points. Which is indeed war and numbers. And we all know those two things go hand in hand. Also, if you guys want me to I can post all or key points of the discussion about how to smuggle the troops into Hell here so you can see for yourself how the ideas are being worked out among the GA, the GENs, and the LTGs. I have no problem answering any questions (as you can see). And I have no problem going out of my way to finding details you guys might need. Since the planning of the wayr spans through a few chapters until the final conflict. Please, just ask and you shall recieve. Also, I'm female which adds to my inability with War tactics because in my family, it's not a female's place to know about those things. So bear with me guys while I learn about them slowly.
Ok, now I am a numbers guy, so if I become unclear, tell me please, since I am very much used to thinking in and about numbers, and consider partial differential equations to be useful tools rather than absolute horrors. Also, I keep wanting to write "no way in Hell you could do this" but, well. Numbers bit: 200,000 troops, assuming they each eat three meals a day (breakfast, lunch, supper), would require about half a million meals every day (some rounding there). In the best case (assuming compact military rations), this will mean providing around three thousand tons of food every day. That equals to about one large cargo barge or 75 trailer trucks per day. No numbers: In medieval cartloads, or ship equivalents, you are using the entire transport resources of a medium-sized country or dukedom. That is assuming each cart can make a trip there and back per day. If not, you will need the transport resources of a big country, a big and powerful kingdom, to just supply transport. That obviously means there is no transport available at all for normal people, so the backing power must be considerably bigger, a huge empire or many kingdoms pooling resources, otherwise trade will break down. Or just make it so that the werewolves don't need food. I don't think there is any historical precedent for smuggling 100,000 troops even close to a hostile country unnoticed, never mind inside it. That may be why your are getting mainly incredulous replies. Fortunately, there are visual effects to help you. Look at pictures or movies of today's parade in Red Square in Moscow. Just look at that mass of soldiers. Those are 20,000. Now just imagine ten of those squares, or watch it ten times and pretend they are different people. EDIT: Ok, now in principle, your plan to do this is quite sound. Move troops in small numbers, under cover. Now, what we still need to know is, how many entrances to Hell are there, that they can use, and are they guarded or not? Who are they going to be fighting? The Devil all by himself, alone? You see, small narrow passages are every attacker's nightmare, and every defender's dream, because numbers cannot the brought to bear in such situations. The (original) Battle of Thermopylae is a great example of this. If Hell has any army to speak of, every one of those passageways will be watched and defended, and almost unassailable. Of course, if there is a secret passageway, known only to the attackers, (much like in Thermopylae) that can be used for a detour, then the story is different.
I'd simplify things and just use magic, for example, get the army to slaughter one million atheists, heathens or whoever has a good chance of going to hell "use magic" capture one hundred thousand souls, have my werewolf army consume them, change into human form, and walk straight into hell with the other nine hundred thousand souls. the Trojan horse strategy.
A battle in hell screams Frontal Assault to me. We're talking about Hell here; numbers are of no consequence. Both generals must possess vast reserves of soldiers and must also be willing to sacrifice each and every one of them for victory. Only the moral commander suffers a Pyrrhic victory. -Anonymous-
Smallers groups of soldiers can move around easier than an entire platoon or company. They are harder to track because they have less to draw attention to them. Think of a group of navy SEALS or even a lone sniper. Even if you have your army break down into groups of one hundred, a small group like that can move faster than an entire army together. As for poisoning the enemy, carrying/finding enough to deal with 200,000+ soldiers is a lot. During medival times, and even up to the American Civil War, infection and disease were the number one killers. Tainting the enemy's water supply and/or destroying their supply wagons would probably be easier. Kill a badger and dump the carcass in the enemy's water well. Water supply is tainted. Destroying their supply lines will hurt the army as well. 200,000 soldiers eat a lot of food, use a lot of medical supplies, and have a lot of equipment that needs maintanence. Without constant supplies, their strength will be severely weakened. Magic is also a bit of a wild card if you decide to use it. Just don't use it too much or people start to wonder why everyone doesn't use it to solve all problems. Unless you have a wizard that can congure up a poison mist or something, it would be easier to have your troops sneak into the enemy camp while they slumber and start killing the enemy, then flee afterwards. The sneak attack will eliminate some soldiers, plus have the effect of demoralizing the enemy. Being male or female has nothing to do with how good your war tactics are. It's more along the lines of how good you are at problem solving and common sense. Just adding to this with another example. A lot of oldier cities, like Rome, Italy and such, have lots of short, narrow streets with sharp turns. The cities purposely built streets like that to make it a nightmare for invading armies. The streets will be so narrow that maybe three or four people could stand side by side. Superior numbers mean very little in close, confined quarters.
A variation on the trojan horse is probably your best bet (or magic but that would probably turn into a deus ex machina). I dont know too much about the backstory to this battle but maybe you could send slaves over as a peace offering or something.
Two problems with this strategy. 1. In the story the werewolf leader has forbidden the act of consuming humans at all, regardless of the part. Any werewolf caught commiting the act is executed for their sin. 2. The werewolves can't use magic. The only people who can really use magic is the demon and the Demonic Princess. However, the demon is a fire demon, and there in lies all his power, in the fire element. The Demonic Princess can use any element (with the exception of light magic), but she is new to her magical abilities and cannot use them in large masses. War always comes with sacrifices, I'm aware of this. In the story a lot of lives are actually sacrified and abused just to achieve the means they have. The one person, Silver, has lost more people to the war then she ever has in her life. In fact it seems as if Silver is the one fueling the war for the most part (you actually find out in a different book that the Werewolf leader supported her and she stood as a representative for him in the war). My point is, they're willing to sacrifice everything to gain victory of this war. Thanks for the tip, with a little reworking I'm sure I can make this work in the story along the way. My one concern with this is that ally troops are mixed in with the enemy (the ally troops are currently playing as the enemy until the right time when they can turn tides and attack). Therefore, they would be affected as well. I am still debating the number of entrances, I don't want to make too many or have to little. I have considered there being possibly one or two in the human world then there actually being more in the demon realm. Not entirely sure if I'm going to go with this though. It only seems like common sense that most of the entrances in the demon realm be guarded. The ones in the human world are not though. This arose another problem for me, but I thought that perhaps fake papers will give them the possibility to enter without question. After all there is one werewolf who is in a high enough position to create such a trail of papers and it not be questioned by any but the Devil himself. No, they will not be fighting the Devil himself. For most of the war they will face off against his troops until someone uses a bomb to force the Devil from the castle. Then it will be a matter of the werewolf army facing off against the Devil's army. While the Devil, the Demonic Princess, the fire demon and the one werewolf all fight. It'll be a 3 on 1 battle. There is actually no chance at peace in this war unless the Devil is killed. In the story, the Demonic Princess, Drucilla, ends up falling in love with the fire demon, Seth, who serves as her guard. Unfortunately, they cannot be together because she is the princess and he is just a guard. In fact, if the Devil were to find out of their love Seth would be sentenced to death. After finding this out Drucilla falls into despair. She then learns that she can change this if she were to become the Devil. However, her father has no plans in allowing such a thing to happen. He promised Drucilla that he would marry her off and she would never become the Devil but as a common wife. Luckily, Drucilla learns that if the heir to Hell ends up missing and no other can be found then once the Devil dies she can claim the throne. Or she can take it from her father by force. Drucilla decides to leave Hell and Seth in secrecy in order to become stronger and find a means to take the throne from her father. For forty years she is never seen or heard from again until Seth (who escaped Hell after his feelings for the princess were revealed) locates her. From then on they spend their time on the run trying to find a means to survive long enough until they can find a way to take the throne. In that time Silver, Drucilla's other werewolf guard, appears once more and betrays the Devil (it seems her means are merely because of her friendship for Drucilla). Silver then takes Seth and Drucilla into the safety of her race. There over a series of events that is both unfortunate and emotional, Drucilla finally finds the means to take the throne from her father. It is then she requests the help of Silver and the werewolf race. Silver agrees on part of her leader and the process to begin the war begins. It was decided by Drucilla that the war shall be in Hell to surprise her father (the Devil) since he is overly cocky and believes so long as he is in Hell he can never be touched by anyone or anything. Drucilla plans to use his cockiness against him, delivering a physcological blow that may help the tide of war.
Hi, If you're going to write any sort of military fiction/fantasy, you ought to have at least a basic understanding of military science/military art. You don't need to become an expert, a few hours of Wikipedia research may be enough, but you should understand at least a little about warfare. For example, do you know the difference between strategy, tactics and logistics? These are the three basic elements of warfare. The reason I ask is that you use the term "war tactics" rather loosely. It also appears to me that you have only the vaguest notion about the war you're trying to describe. If the terminology and details aren't very important to you, maybe you should try to find another way to tell your story, leaving out the war altogether and focusing on other elements of the story which are more interesting to you.
