WF Book Club November Selection: American Gods

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by thirdwind, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Speedy

    Speedy Contributor Contributor

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    I never minded the ending. For me, when i was reading this, i was constantly waiting for a high point (I don't mean this in a bad way), which i never really got. I was constantly learning little bits here and there without the OHHHH!.

    Might have helped because i picked on on something early (Which had to have been explained for a reason).

    Never cared much for Sahdow to be honest. I guess it was the cast of characters he visits thats the thing. He was just a tool for us the experience them.

    I did love the fat kid though. Mr Gen Y i called him personally.
     
  2. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    I'm done reading too now. I'll try keep my discussion away from spoilers for the time being til we're mostly all caught up.

    Gaiman's heavy featuring of trickery, explicitly shown with Shadow's sleight of hand, is undoubtedly important. Potentially, it acts as a precurser to the ending, but also perhaps holds a mirror up to society. Gods are not portrayed in an especially good light in this book, and Gaiman's air of deceipt and fakery is perhaps telling.

    True, in many author's hands this fantasy epic would have become a fantasy epic its focus being the "storm", or oncoming war. I'd say though that because it isn't we have to ask why. Gaiman's aim was not to write a fantasy epic culminating or showcasing a battlescene, rather to make different points. There are many themes, and happily they largely tie off nicely. While the ending may be abrupt, all I felt a little cheated by were some of the revelations, specifically Shadow's true self / origins. I felt introduced in the way it was it was anti-climatic when all about him was war.

    I don't think the preferred text gives you greater insight into the Gods and their roles in mythology. The Wikipedia page on the book, which I've just looked at, gives you a list of the main characters and who they relate to in mythology so is worth a look AFTER you finish as it does contain many spoliers too.

    While a greater knowledge of mythology would allow for slightly better insight into Gaiman's world (some of the jokes only work if you catch the reference, some of threats only make proper sense if you know who's involved), the book is written carefully so that prepatory reading is not required, and I think the end result is actually quite accesible, not just in a mythological sense, but also for the fantasy genre as a whole, because whilst thematically we're in the realms of fantasy, narratively and aesthetically we seem to be in a more typical American realist journey-type mould. Switch a couple of (crucial) elements and we could well have been in a conspiracy / crime novel.

    It's difficult to warm to Shadow isn't it? He is "paid not to ask questions" so we rarely get inside him, and, following the death of Laura, his numbness of emotion is all we seem to get. He lumbers from scene to scene, latterly attempting to feel anything, later still attempting to feel alive. His distance is thematically understandable, but it makes us passengers rather than active participants in his comings and goings.

    Interesting some of the new world Gods aren't named, we can make our assumptions about "Mr Gen Y" - I'd guess he's Internet, the circuit board references and his sedantry life style guiding me in that direction. I didn't much like him though, though he is set up as a "baddy" so perhaps that isn't surprising. I did like that the boundaries between "baddies" and "goodies" becomes decidely blurred late on mind. Criticism for all is essential in a tale like this, save is becomes blasphemous.

    I've got a few questions of my own, but I'll hold back 'til we're almost all done reading.

    Perhaps, just one. I'm curious, apart from one mention, why does Jesus Christ not feature in this novel? One would expect him to, he's fairly prominent in both camps I'd say. I have my own thoughts, just wondering what others thought.
     
  3. Speedy

    Speedy Contributor Contributor

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    Jesus Christ was mentioned for one very, very brief conversation midway through the book. Maybe it was only in the preferred text.

    Apparently he is hitchhiking/backpacking through Afghanistan. Or so one of the characters tell's Shadow.



    Nevermind, you said the one mention.
     
  4. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    It may have to do with the popularity of religion here in America. I know that the number of religious folks here (especially in the South) is much greater than European countries. I think Gaiman is focusing on two extremes when he writes about the old and new gods. In my opinion, Jesus falls somewhere in between these two extremes. I'll expand on this a little later when I have more time, but I just wanted to get the conversation rolling.
     
  5. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    I've a couple of thoughts on JC's absence:

    1) Gaiman didn't want to blaspheme too closely to his core readership so kept him ouf for his own good (don't buy it really)
    2) JC fits into neither camp rather than both, he was revered, still is and will likely be so for some time, so keeps out of these petty duels (perhaps)
    3) The monotheistic Gods are so bewildered by current society that they are either backpacking in Afghanistan (itself somewhat telling) or absent entirely (appeals to me)

    So, are we all done reading? Can we get to spoilers now?
     
  6. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not done reading, but with as busy as work is right now, I probably won't be able to finish until after November ends...so spoiler away, I say. :)
     
  7. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I'm leaning toward the second option. As I mentioned in a previous post, Jesus still has a strong following so he's in no danger of being forgotten anytime soon. I remember reading in a review of the book that the longer version has a brief passage on Jesus. I haven't read the longer version, so is this true? And if Jesus is indeed mentioned, is there anything important to take away from it?
     
  8. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    The only reference to Jesus is that he is currently backpacking in Afghanistan. This doesn't confirm why he is not involved in this struggle, nor why he has left America (if indeed he has as the book also alludes to their being multiple representations of the same God, "He was me, but I am not him").

    What is interesting though is what one can draw from Jesus's location. Just as the Gods were brought to America by the immigrant population, so now is Jesus perhaps in Afghanistan brought perhaps brought by the troops.

    OK, another point of discussion. It's frequently mentioned that America is a bad place for Gods. Do you agree with this? Is it worse than anywhere else? Is Gaiman criticising multi-culturalism? Or is it perhaps more simply a bad place for most Gods?
     
  9. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Ah, OK. Your third point makes a lot more sense now. I suspect that you're right in saying that this reference to Jesus has something to do with the conflict in Afghanistan.

    To answer your question, I think America is a bad place for most, but not all, gods. But then that could be said of any country really. Cultures and beliefs are constantly changing, so it's only natural that new gods rise up to take the place of old gods. It makes me wonder how Jesus will be viewed a thousand years from now.
     
  10. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    That Jesus (and other monotheistic deities) is largely absent from this novel is in itself perhaps telling - Gaiman could well be alluding to what you mention in your last sentence. Perhaps he is foretelling the demise of current religious orders by focusing on the old in his novel.

    So, anyway, the good aspects of this novel are easy to isolate in my opinion - its scope, its relative originality, its fantasy/reality/dream/mythological/religious blending, even its subplots. What about its detractions however?

    I was left with quite a few questions. Being left with questions is not a bad thing, it allows for discussion and interpretation - one can make the novel ones own in this fashion. However, I felt I could have done with a little more on the girl Sam character as she seemed peripheral yet stangely key, and I wasn't exactly sure why and how Laura was back among the living (though I suspect Wednesday has orchestrated it to help Shadow fulfill his role).
     
  11. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    One of the things I had a problem with was how Gaiman handled Shadow's character. For being such an important part of the book, I felt he was underdeveloped as a character. He was basically dragged across the country, and after a while it became repetitive.

    I also think that Gaiman relied on subplots too much in order to try to tie the novel together. Perhaps that was why I felt that some parts moved along very slowly. But, as Gannon mentioned, there are several good aspects of this book, the most obvious one being its originality. All in all it was a good read.
     
  12. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    I agree Shadow was pulled around the country, and in being so was largely inexpressive himself. Rather than find this as underdevelopment however, I asked myself why Shadow remains as mysterious (or lacking) as he does. I had two thoughts. 1) With Laura's death, he is understandably numb and this apathy is shown in his submissive actions and fairly mute nature. 2) Gaiman wants to protect his assets. He's made a big deal of not revealing exactly who Shadow actually is (though there are allusions enough), called him Shadow for goodness' sake (I don't buy the "following adults around" explanation), and has him lumbering around literally in his own shadow.

    With these I mind, I didn't find the book a fast-paced rollercoaster, but nevertheless quite enjoyed it throughout as I could just about rationalise the author's decisions at every turn.
     
  13. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Shadow is based on the god Baldr, and while there are similarities between the legend of Badlr and the story in American Gods, I felt like the traits and characteristics of Baldr weren't really apparent in Shadow. My only guess as to why Gaiman would do this is that he wanted to show a kind of rebirth of the god Baldr. Shadow starts off as the very antithesis of Baldr but gradually becomes more and more like the god he's supposed to be.
     
  14. yuriicide

    yuriicide New Member

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    I finished reading American Gods last month (Also my first N.G novel) and I think it's an absolutely great piece of work. I loved every word of it. :)
     

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