What are some major misconceptions that amateurs have about writing?

There's nothing wrong with that in moderation, but there are some people who are constantly posting questions to writing forums because they are unable to make a move without running it by the class. That's writing by committee. Writing is an inherently creative medium, not a collaborative one. Even if you're working with someone, you still have to go away and work on your own. There are people out there who, while they aren't quite this bad, it still feels like it. "What word should I use next? Please help me!"

 

Grammar and language questions are fair enough, IMO. A lot of them come from non-English speakers (fair play, I'd never be able to write a story in another language) or quite young writers.

As you say, the occasional question is fine, but when you try and steer the person towards their own conclusion and the same questions still crop up - that's when it gets frustrating.

 

Yup, and when you try to tell people at the beginning of the curve that it's complicated, you get attacked. It's really why you don't see a lot of established professional writers trying to help the uninitiated unless there's a paycheck in it. It isn't because they're moneygrubbing, it's because they know that people are a lot more receptive to what's being said if they're paying for it than if they're just receiving the same advice for free. If you take a run over to Reddit, anyone daring to say "writing is hard" gets soundly down-voted because nobody wants to hear it. Too bad. Writing is hard. Getting published is harder. Being successfully published and continuing to be published is insanely difficult. It doesn't matter whether people like the idea or not, it is the truth. People need to get over their emotional comfort and deal with reality. It's the only way forward.

 

That's completely fine, but this is all plot related. I can think of one person on another forum who constantly posts questions about what he should do, then he spends the entire thread arguing with all comers how he was right all along, then when people get tired of it and the responses peter out, he starts a new thread and does it all again. I don't even read his threads anymore because it's all a complete waste of everyone's time. He's using it as an excuse not to put his butt in a seat and be productive.

 

A lot of it, yes. The desire to be constantly connected and validated in absolutely everything that you do, that is not conducive to being a productive or successful writer. People need to learn how to unplug and get down to work.

I think that's a massive problem these days, especially for people who were raised believing they are magically special and they deserve a cookie just for waking up in the morning. The fastest way to be disabused of these delusions is to put your work out there and let people take a gander at it. Not little tiny snippets on a forum where everyone is treating everyone else with kid gloves in the guise of being "helpful". A whole book or a whole story, dumped out there for the general public who don't give a crap about your feelings, only about what you've written. You very quickly find that nobody is special and how anyone feels doesn't matter, only how you perform does. It's a very rude awakening for a lot of people.

 

Ah yeah, when people aren't really looking for honest critique and feedback, but essentially looking for praise and validation.

 

Is there a version of this chart that trails off into a never-ending, neurotic rollercoaster of constant ups and downs between "trust me, it's complicated" and "I'm never going to understand this?" Because confidence waxes and wanes for a lot of artists, apparently even the pros. Anne Lamott wrote half her book about it.

 

Lol, well, we're living organic beings, so fluctuation is a fact of life. But at least we do outgrow the lethal ignorance/arrogance cocktail if we get far enough in the learning curve.

And interesting that you mention a roller coaster. That made me notice the graph actually does look like the beginning of a roller coaster track, the big hill where the cars are pulled up and dropped, and then gravity does the rest. That's really a good analogy. There are twists and turns in our learning and our career (if we have any such thing or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and scary parts where you think you're going to crash. And some people might puke.

 

Hmm... "misconceptions" and "delusions". Pretty close.

Something to launch that rollercoaster straight into hyperspace of neuroticism.))) To be honest, I think the middle is gold here. There's no need to feed all the Greatest Outer Internet Commentators of the world (the quality of such feedbacks varies from one to another significantly), at the same time delusions, surely, shouldn't be nurtured either. Nothing is wrong with a civilised (doesn't mean "toothless") and constructive response. I do agree with deadrats that a publisher can improve your writing a lot, although for a waking novice... I'd say a piece of advice from a pro is what the doctor ordered. It looks right to try the mild pill first anyway, you don't have to stop the heart to cure nose bleeding.) Well, usually you don't.

 

If you can't handle honest criticism, wow are you in the wrong place. Because you will eventually, unless you're stuck hiding in the corner, have to put your work out there and you are going to get it right between the eyes. A writer must have a thick skin. Any who don't, they have no business being in this business. Might as well rip the bandaid off now and learn how reality actually works. It doesn't matter how sad reality might make you, it is what actually is. Time to fess up and embrace it.

 

Aren't most people on this forum by definition amateur writers? As such, how do we know which misconceptions we hold?

 

You're very fond of telling everyone what a writer has to be. Yours is not the only way. Some people need nurturing, especially in the beginning. Everyone deserves kindness, and most of us are willing to provide it here, so I'd say this is far from the wrong place.

 

But Cephus is right. Outside the bounds of this forum, people won't be so kind. There was a new user just recently who was very down because he'd put his work online (Facebook?) and received some very harsh feedback, and it had made him lose confidence in his writing.

Even on this forum, I've seen users who, when receiving feedback, become very defensive, which is not a good way to improve your writing. When I critique something, I may think it's the worst piece in the world, but I try to find something nice to say about it - but others out in the wider world don't necessarily feel that obligation.

And most writers tell us - rejection, rejection, rejection. You have to learn to handle that. It's the same with most creative arts. Actors can't get down every time they fail an audition.

 

Just to be clear what I'm about to say is not a misconception but my personal opinion. Sure criticism hurts even when it's meant to help, Is it necessary to be harsh? I don't think so. It was those professors who saw something in my work and, yes, praised it that helped me pursue writing. Sure, no one is that good when they start out, but knowing someone believes in you makes you digest their advice in a different way. Then I was able to rewrite and grow. With harsh criticism I can end up feeling stuck and then I really don't know what to do.

I think there is a difference between being blunt and being harsh. The world is cruel enough. I think I have the most criticism for something that's close to a publishable level. I truly hope I haven't been too harsh with anyone here who has shared their work with me. There are some great writers among us. We don't all need harsh words to get better. It's great to have problems pointed out. I can work with that. But sometimes it seems like people want to give harsh criticism to prove something, like they know everything. But, perhaps, they don't because then they would know how to give advice in a way that's often more beneficial, in my option. I'm not talking about the workshop on here. I don't really know what goes on there. I've looked at a few things, but sometimes it seems like the blind leading the blind and just spouting out the same rules they complain about elsewhere. I'm sure it's not all like that, but I find it very hard to join that sort of conversation.

Rejection is a given, but it's not really criticism or necessarily a reflection of the work. It's just something all writers experience. When a magazine buys my stories, sometimes the amount of edits look overwhelming. But this isn't criticism or feedback so much as detailed instructions from someone who knows what works. If you can offer that sort of feedback, I think it's great. Of course, you need a killer story to get to the point of working with an editor, but when someone like that says this is how you make it better it is really what that writer needs to hear. That's also a reason why it's always important to consider where the feedback is coming from.

I've been ripped apart in workshops. I only cried one time. It's good to hear and know how what you write is being perceived, but there is more than one way to approach that. Yes, you need thick skin to be a writer, but that's because it's a tough industry to break into and stay an active part in. And the writing never ends. I think the best feedback you can give someone is to say something that will carry over to their future writing in addition to strengthening the piece at hand.

There are certain things I say all the time on hear, but that's because I really believe them. There is room at the top for everyone. Writers should build each other up. I'm on this forum because I care about this community and love talking shop. All I'm saying is that we should be kind to each other and foster the budding talent around us.

 

That's exactly the case. Most writers never achieve more than amateur status, which is fine if that's what they're satisfied with, but lots of people have wishes and dreams of being published by Big 5 companies and they can't even accept legitimate criticism of their work. I just saw someone post somewhere that they got their first rejection and it was the end of the world. No, when he can wallpaper his house in rejections and nobody will return his calls, then maybe it's the end of the world. Until then though, you have to be able to deal with the world you actually live in, and the world that every single writer actually lives in doesn't care about their feelings, nor should it. We do people a tremendous disservice by trying to soften the blow, or in the worst cases, entirely neuter it. That doesn't mean we should be cruel, but we need honesty and that seems to be in very short supply. Far too many people think that if they tell other writers the uncomfortable truth, then those other writers just might say the same thing back to them. And I say good! Bring it on! Because you don't learn from your mistakes if nobody is brave enough to point out that you have mistakes. If you don't have a thick skin, you are in the wrong place. You have to be able to fend off the slings and arrows of reality in any creative endeavor because like it or not, when you get out in the real world, you are going to get trounced. Even people like Stephen King get told that their work sucks. Do you think he breaks down when he gets bad reviews? Of course not. He laughs all the way to the bank. This isn't something that you slowly develop as time goes on, this is something that you need to develop from day one.

 

Yeah, we're all aware of how hard it is and how harsh people can be. I don't care. I think encouragement is important, especially early on. You're not going to change my mind about that.

My first time in the workshop, I could barely take it, but I got used to it. Constructive criticism thickens the hide. Getting a little defensive is a natural part of that process. There's no excuse for being brutal though. There's no reason to shut someone down who's still learning. Those nerves are raw. You wouldn't throw 90MPH fastballs at someone who's just learning to swing a bat. You wouldn't tell them they're horrible and should go home. Not if you have a heart. Not if you want them to succeed.

 

But we're not talking about being brutal. We're talking about being honest - but also constructive.

I've seen brutal critiques where people rip apart works seemingly just for the hell of it. Those are as equally useless and damaging as unjustified praise.

 

Some of us are talking about that.

 

Brutal Critique: -10<-9<-8<-7<-6<-5<-4<-3<-2<-1<0>1>2>3>4>5>6>7>8>9>10:Unearned Praise

Both extremes are useless. Where reviews and critiques fall in between should depend on the purpose and the level of the writer.

 

Well, I'm not. I could point you to several Workshop entries where the critiques were harsh, but fair and constructive, and resulted in the author lashing out against the people trying to help.

 

Ah, I see. So what you meant by that was not necessarily writing what kinds of stories were trending (like vampire or alien invasions) but what about those stories made them popular. And then incorporating those into your own stories.

 

We may be talking about the same thing in different words. Of course critiques can be tough and fair at the same moment, that's why I said "civilized" and not "polite". Dumb trolling doesn't improve one's writing, it's not constructive and usually there is little to learn from it rather than how to grow thick skin (which actually may result in author's deaf stubbornness). All I imply is that there's no reason to exchange curses when work can be done.

Could you do me a favour? No sarcasm, it might be the right material for me to go through.

 

You put your heads above the parapet so I am going to take a pot shot.

@Cephus and @Naomasa298 the fact that you have taken countless attempts to reinforce your point on this thread makes me think that one of the following may be true:

1. You lack conviction in your views. Otherwise, you would have made your point in one or two posts and moved on. If you had made your point absolutely clear in the first place there would be no reason to further explain/justify it. You would certainly not feel any inclination to keep adding and adding to it.
   
2. You may lack the ability at the present time to articulate your views to the forum. If that is the case, might I suggest you take time to consider what your point is and present your final case on this matter to the forum, and yes you guessed it move on.

Is that direct/ harsh enough for you?

My own personal view on this: people have faced the harsh realities of life, death, illness, tragedy, catastrophic incidents. In general but not all cases people tend to write because of such incidents and 'Newsflash' not because they want to be published or famous or whatever you seem to think. Many of the people on this forum are already broken or damaged by the harsh realities of life, yes real life. A few of such realities I mentioned above but they are part of an inexhaustible list.

Writing is a serious undertaking, it can take every moment of a persons time. A project can take years but I really don't think anybody really thinks that it is hard. Writing is a lifestyle choice. No one is pointing a gun at your head saying write! Writing is as hard as you want to make it. If people don't want to take it to seriously then that is their choice. If others are incredibly serious about it then that is their choice. Motor Neuron Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's or Cancer - They don't give you a choice.

I actually really like reading your posts @Cephus and @Naomasa298. I want to hear your forthright views as they are honest and refreshing, but what is happening on this thread is over the line in my opinion. I will ask you again, can you back up the bus a little? Can we have the old @Cephus and @Naomasa298 back, please.

Oh and by the way, I rubbed people up the wrong way on a thread called poetic meter. I still hold my views strongly but it was not washing with the other members so I recognised I should keep my trap shut. Even though my points were valid, I recognised I should let them carry on with an otherwise positive and productive thread. It is a skill you know, knowing when to keep quiet!

Hope I don't get banned for saying this. I would really like it if this thread got closed and we could all go back to getting along...

 

This has warped into something different, so to nudge it back .
I think most amateurs remain so , because they are not resourceful . To become good at anything you need to be able to teach and develop yourself . It is hard to know what it is you need to know , that is when critiques become useful . The best critiques are not just pointing out your weaknesses , but ones that offer some justification of the critique as well. Education has made to many believe that to succeed you just need someone to show you how , and spend their lives waiting for that knowledge to arrive .
Most amateurs don't realise that being a good writer is not the only skill you need to succeed in the business of publishing . Unless you have some entrepreneurial skill you will never go beyond posting your stories on websites like this one.

 

I think I agree with the first part of your post! Amateurs need to learn. Learning is something that is indoctrinated in us at school. It is certainly not an epiphany that one has in later life. Learning is a cultural thing in many societies in early life that continues throughout life. To differing degrees, we are successful at learning. What some are saying here is that some people do not want to learn and I think this is a reasonable analogy. If they don't want to learn then it will hold them back to that degree. My issue is, firstly that is their business and second, we can only care to a certain point. The extreme view is that one should not care about people that are unwilling to learn, my view is, one should try and help but never become too invested in helping such people. It is true that it is more down to the amateur to help themselves. That is a point not lost on anybody.