What defines discrimination?

Sorry thread, I was watching a threat in the movie and got confused...edited the message!

 

It's satire. People need to develop thicker skins. Better allowing that form of expression than having a society where it isn't allowed.

 

Agreed. A society in which jokes can be made freely and everyone laughs is a better, happier society for all. Political Correctness only keeps people segregated and emphasizes divisions.

 

If we weren't allowed to be critical of a person's beliefs and lifestyle choices (religion & culture), what right would we have as a society to collectively condemn groups like the English Defence League and other extremist organisations/institutions?

This is quite different to intolerance directed towards certain groups and ethnic minorities based on a a perceived innate 'difference'. As someone said above, religion is a choice/affiliation. Being born with a particular characteristic which identifies a person as a member of a minority whether it be skin colour or disability for example, is surely a different matter altogether?

Criticising someone because you think their beliefs are intolerant (e.g. highlighting the Church's exclusion of gay people), is distinguishable from denying someone a job because you have found out that they're a Christian. The Church doesn't have a particularly glowing track record. Creationism has replaced evolution on some school curriculums and it's not difficult to see why people might have an issue with this. It would be undesirable to live in a world where highlighting & discussing these collisions in beliefs could be seen as intolerant or un-PC.

Legally speaking, it is equally illegal to discriminate against someone as a result of their religious beliefs as it is to discriminate against someone for their skin colour. Therefore under the law, at least in the UK, religious groups aren't disenfranchised of rights afforded to other 'groups'.

I also think the anti-PC brigade also ought to have a deep think about why it is we have a PC culture. It is only relatively recently that our society has made a concerted attempt to treat people equally. I shudder to think of some of the things I heard in the playground growing up in the 1980/90s. A particularly nasty word for someone with cerebral palsy was very common. Let's not unravel the progress we've made.

@ Lemex, who said "A society in which jokes can be made freely and everyone laughs is a better, happier society for all. Political Correctness only keeps people segregated and emphasizes divisions."

How does political correctness emphasise divisions? I'd say divisions are exactly what it's attempting to tackle.

Btw I've never been offended by South Park. I understand satire. South Park is really the least of our worries.

 

Political correctness is not progress. It is merely a muzzle on speech and a corresponding attempt to muzzle thought. It doesn't not reflect an underlying change in attitude, just a change in appearances as a result of fear. Further more, it is a political tool used to squelch opposing expression.

Better to change perceptions and attitudes, in which case political correctness becomes unnecessary.

 

I'm only against political correctness when it's illogical. There is a difference between being politically incorrect and just being an intolerant jerk.

Since you asked, I said it. I say political correctness emphasis divisions because it does. If I say 'English people really like complaining' people laugh in agreement. If I said 'English people really like complaining' and I were punched in the face I'd feel an increased resentment toward English people for intolerance.

 

It's dangerous to make blanket statements against political correctness though. While you might be perfectly reasonable in your assertions, without examples, how are you distinguishable from someone who is desperate to live in a world where we can say derogatory things about asylum seekers/Muslims? There are *plenty* of them, worryingly.

 

I think people should be perfectly free to say derogatory things about whoever they like; and we should be perfectly free to call them morons for so doing.

 

Can you use examples though? When is political correctness a muzzle?

 

@Pict. I have an admittedly not very good example above in the form of an edit. It should illustrate what I'm trying to say.

 

So a climate/society where we discourage people from purposefully using derogatory language is bad because we can't seek out and expose the bigots easily enough?

 

Like I said. There is a difference between being politically incorrect and just being an intolerant jerk. At least, I think so.

 

The most obvious example would be 'hate speech,' where speech alone is elevated to a crime. But in the U.S. it applies to virtually anything from immigration, to race, to homosexuality, where discussion topics are off the table in the mainstream because they're deemed politically incorrect. In the educational system here, in schools, certain discussions cannot be engaged in for the same reasons.

Political correctness is at its core a political tool to shut down expression that whoever is wielding the politically correct sword does not like.

 

So, when people are called out on their views (i.e. punched or whatever) it creates divisions because the un-PC person feels shame and resentment? Or am I not reading that right?

 

Political correctness isn't merely "discouragement." There is generally a consequence to go with it.

And of course it becomes all too convenient to label people as bigots when they have views you do not like, and then come in with PC justifications as an excuse to silence them.

What is all boils down to for any given person advocating PC is that they want societal discourse to be limited to things they approve of, and that's a rather frightening power to give any group in a free society.

 

In your opinion it's a political tool. You are obviously not a fan of the liberal left. I fail to see how immigration for example would be beyond debate though? In what sense?

 

Like my example above about saying English people like complaining. There is a big difference between being able to make fun of outdated cultural habits or weird quirks, and just not mentioning it and treating it as taboo, which in my experience has only made race relations more embittered.

 

The fact that you associated it with the "liberal left" makes my point. It's a political tool.

 

It is discouragement where I'm coming from. It's certainly not censorship.

 

It is de facto censorhip, in many cases. And when there are criminal penalties attached, it is really hard to argue that it is not.

 

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying political correctness makes people thin-skinned and easily offended. Which can so easily lead to decision and resentment. In my experience it has done just this.

 

No. I knew you were implying that. Since when did a conservative ever bemoan that the world is not PC enough? C'mon.... The Daily Mail hates political correctness. Anyone I've ever heard openly resent it comes from the right.

 

Ok, this has silly. I'm a Liberal and a little bit of a Marxist.

 

Unfortunately for that argument, I'm not conservative. I'm just pointing out that the fact you associate it with liberal v. conservative discourse demonstrates the political nature of it.

 

See without examples, this is just a priori reasoning. All you're saying is that "PC is bad." We will only go in circles unless we identify who is being thin skinned and why.