Oh, you got that propaganda too? That's hilarious. The guys over at Watts interviewed a ton of the climate scientists that are counted as being 'pro-AGW'. None of them were, their work skewed by the IPCC to fit an agenda rather than being presented as actual science. I'm sorry I question what the biased and dictator-run UN tells me is right! How terrible of me to side with scientists over dictators! Here's something for you to think about; the way Kyoto was written, Canada was the only country on Earth that had to reduce emissions. No one else did. America didn't sign on to it, all the third world dictatorships weren't required to reduce emissions, China wasn't required to reduce emissions, Europe was all bundled into one big pot and the nuclear power plants of the West were used to offset the coal plants of the East and Russia was against Kyoto until their economy started to collapse and they didn't have to reduce emissions either! It takes drinking 'koolaide' to dismiss such a vast amount of scientific evidence. Funny thing, the most successful country at reducing emissions has been America and China's pollution continues to explode and now produces more pollution than America. I've read the arguments for and against man-caused climate change and found the ones in favour lacking, with mountains of scientific evidence against it, but almost nothing but propaganda in favour of it. So, if you're open minded, why not entertain the other side instead of dismissing it, like I did? Go read Watts Up With That. Join the debate and ask questions. But of course, you won't. And we know why.
I believe in health conspiracies - a fear agenda designed to keep everyone thinking of pills & cures. I also believe in a zeroself esteem propaganda - ads & articles to make us feel so lousy about ourselves and our bodies that we'll clamor to them for advice or their crappy products.
Global Warming truth/falsehood comes down to one very specific thing: The accuracy & quality of climate-change simulations run by climate scientists on massive supercomputers that sometimes take up a whole floor of a building. Our current computer simulations and data tell us that man-made global warming is indeed happening. They also give us predictions of how much the earth will warm/change 10, 20, 30 years from now. If our current computer simulations are ACCURATE & DEPENDABLE, then there is no denying that Global Warming is happening, and that we are the cause. If our climate simulations are FAULTY, however, we may have ZERO INSIGHT into how our climate will look in 20 - 30 years from now. The world could be warmer than we predict. It could also be cooler than we predict. Our world may experience extreme weather as a result of GW. Or we may - paradoxically - wind up with milder weather events than today. I trust 99% of scientists to tell the truth about Global Warming. But there is no way of knowing TODAY whether our computer-predictions of climate for 10 YEARS FROM NOW are solid. We won't know how well we predict climate in the year 2025, until we actually REACH the year 2025 and can compare simulation data with real-world climate data. I hope that makes some sense. I personally believe that Global Warming is real, and happening. I trust the scientists to get that much right.
In case I wasn't clear: I'm saying what you are, it's not a conspiracy, it's the business model, the monopoly of broadcast corporations and people like Rupert Murdoch that underlie the problem. And even though the news has always been a commodity, the business model has deteriorated considerably over the last few decades. Investigative reporting budgets have been completely gutted in some larger mainstream news agencies. They've learned they can sell just as much ad space with talking heads as they can with investigative news, and the heads are cheaper. Parroting political speeches without any fact checking, cheaper. Presenting everything as a controversy and scandal sell better than fact. And then there is outright fake news, video news releases produced and distrubuted by the government or corporations, free to the news agency, all they need add is a fake interaction with a reporter.
I don't want the thread to be hijacked into a global warming debate, especially since you agree with the scientific consensus. The models are not the problem. The problem is people not understanding how the science is cherry picked to make it look like the models are wrong. In addition, most lay people don't understand the difference between climate and weather though changing the framing of the debate from global warming to global climate disruption has helped more people understand the difference. From my earlier link: The myth that the models are wrong.
We all know what a conspiracy is (An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act) and we all know what a theory is (An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture) so why the controversy about the term 'conspiracy theory'? Shouldn't we as writers be able to explore any idea no matter how far out it may at first sound? Shouldn't we be open to thought provoking stories and the more outlandish the better? Should we believe everything our governments tell us? Should we think humans are that special that no other life exists in the solar system? Or would thinking 'actually their might be life out there' make us out to be crackpot? Are we that naïve to believe there is nobody conspiring? That nobody commits wrongful or illegal or subversive acts? That govts wouldn't commit such atrocities and cover them up? When Bush/Blair said Hussein had WMDs and then it was proved they never existed in the first place, some were considered crackpot conspiracy-theorists then guess what... But lets take a look at one or two historic events that have left nothing but question marks JFK Marylin Munroe (who was 'cavorting' with JFK) MLK Princess Di 911 Unlimited CTs since One World Govt / NWO Obama's birthplace Lincoln's Assasination Jack Welch and his jobless figures Flouride in drinking water Chem-trails HIV AIDS man made As mentioned, the moon landing - why didn't the Russians pull them on it? They couldn't disprove it. Roswell Lots of high publicity random shootings to reign in gun laws These things all happened and there are more loose strings than an army of children who can't tie their laces and every single outcome proved fatal and/or immense for the major players in each circumstance. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist" Keyser Soze
It isn't the scientists that are the problem, it is the people speaking for the scientists that are the problem. The guys over at Watts interviewed a bunch of climate scientists that the IPCC includes in their "97% of climate scientists" that believe in man-caused climate change. Every single one said that the IPCC misrepresented them. The vast majority of climate scientists that are interviewed personally say that CO2 is causing the world to warm, but that the level of warming and the outcome of the warming is being grossly exaggerated by the IPCC. If you go to Watts Up With That and ask questions, almost all of the engineers, Earth scientists, physicists and plethora of other scientists will explain to you that yes, CO2 likely causes some warming, but the primary issue is, how much? This is where the skeptics disagree the most. The secondary issue is what will happen if there really is warming (since the scientific method can't be used to test the hypothesis), what will it do to the planet? No one disagrees with the effects of localised climate change due to human activity, such as increase erosion or logging causing local temperatures to increase. The issue is whether or not the warming is catastrophic. There is a plethora of evidence that it is beneficial. For instance, seal populations are rising in Northern Canada because of the reduced sea ice (contrary to popular propaganda, an increase in sea ice has reduced seal populations several times in the past). Polar bear populations are also rising and it has been linked to the rise in seal population. Meanwhile, people like GingerCoffee rely on climate models that have never once been right, but she treats them the way a religious extremist treats his holy book. Sorry, the world wasn't created in 6 days and the world isn't going to melt. In fact, Antarctica is growing.
I like the 'lost cosmonauts.' There's some 'recordings' from an Italian listening station. You'll find them with a couple of clicks. The disappeared Russian campers is also spooky - unresolved mysteries, wiki. Icke is kind of sad - the ramblings of a functioning schizophrenic. Who am I to say? We've had faith for 1000s of years and it touches us all at times. Maybe we should leave the conspiracists be with their snakes and guns. Might be a fun write? I struggled from my gurgling slumber when that big fat shock jock guy came over and gave us the Bilderberg speech on live TV. I thought, 'goodness, need to acquire rational argument to defeat the moron. Pass the holster.'
Weirdly I've literally just heard some of those recordings. *dramatic music* Honestly, that's one of the much more credible theories. I could imagine it being true.
Returning to OP I love these so-called CTs. I can dive straight in, it doesn't matter if they are true or not, it's like avid readers of fantasy who don't come up for air. Do I actually believe govts would commit heinous atrocities to further their career or at the behest of their puppet masters or if I think bankers would bring down the world's economies for greed and power? I think you'd be a fool not to. The Rothschilds have been doing it for centuries.
No, is dull slush...'Conspiracy of the Elders of Zion' is still doing the rounds. Tho' 'Letter of last Resort' is hot for fiction, writers. I'm conflicted by horror and fantasy ever since I read 'I was Mengele's Assistant.' It's all here on planet Zog. I upset myself years ago with 'Space Shuttle last words' - turned out to be hoax. Pornographic - tho' my kids are facebooking beheadings of conscript boy soldiers. Veering off - aww, well try writing a world where the conspiracies are fact. I suppose the exploitation of the poor by the wealthy is the crying shame but we do nothing. Rambling...Polish beer.
... Global warming is a conspiracy? UFO CTs are pretty interesting, albeit silly and unbeliavable. It's interesting how people come up with this stuff, how can they believe in it? How and when did their wires get crossed so badly? I guess it makes sense people come up with conspiracies to make sense of events that don't really make sense. Fill in the blanks and connect the dots, see what we want to see, dismiss the evidence that doesn't fit. What can I say, some of us are natural born story-tellers. ETA: the mention of Mengele reminded me; some people still don't believe in the Holocaust. And I suppose that some regular Germans living in Nazi Germany back in the 40s and onwards had a hard time believing the horrors that eventually surfaced. Sometimes reality is so much worse than what the human imagination alone can conjure up...
2000 years ago they hung a guy on a cross for thinking he was the son of God, then those who believed were also physically and mentally tortured, some still are - albeit silly and unbelievable
Attempts to portray the Germans as innocent in the Holocaust is probably the biggest actual conspiracy in existence. The shear number of work and death camps in Germany (not just Poland, a common misconception) makes it physically impossible for them not to have known what was going on. It would have taken tens of thousands of labourers, welders, pipe fitters, plumbers and on and on and on to build those facilities. Those people would have talked about it with their friends and family. The information would have spread and there is ample evidence that it did. There are 525 righteous gentiles from Germany alone. Extrapolate based on the numbers that knew in other countries and the number of righteous gentiles in those countries, and almost every single person in Germany would have had to have known that the Holocaust was occurring. They just thought ignoring it was the better option.
Can we not try and belittle Christianity on this thread. There are Christians who use this forum. Agreed. Holocaust denial is just so horrible, I can't believe that it goes on in all honesty.
the point was that just because you or I haven't seen an alien doesn't mean they don't exist. If we believe in God and that He created the earth, then who's to say he didn't create other life forms on other planets? It isn't like we've been to many for a look - Or have we? 2000 years ago Jesus's followers were slated as crackpots as David Icke's are today. If history tells us anything its to be accommodating not judgemental on the ideas of others. As regards the holocaust, I think it's pretty clear it happened and it's only a handful of paranoid jews that perpetuate the myth that it didn't happen to bolster their own siege mentality. And I agree with Lemex, I can't believe it's still being talked about. In case anyone was thinking I was having a pop at Christianity, I wasn't, fully signed up Roman Catholic here.
Sorry if I did that. I was raised an Orthodox Christian, but jokes regarding my faith sometimes slip out... It's probably natural to want to blot out something so horrible happening in your own backyard, not that it makes it right. Back then there was all kinds of Jewish Conspiracy propaganda going on as well. How conspiracies can be used to control people... ETA: Yeah, I get your point. But with certain things like aliens and UFOs visiting Earth this "just because you or I haven't seen it doesn't mean they don't exist" -mentality just feels iffy to me.
Just because you think someone is out to get you, doesn't mean you're paranoid. In the case of the Jews, unless there is confirmed schizophrenia, it's never been paranoia.
Don't worry about that by the way, I thought I'd do that, put that reminder there as a 'just in case'. The British historian David Irvine is a denier of the holocaust, that it was on the scale claimed by the history books. That is the only academic study into this subject anyway, and honestly I can't say I know how I feel about it. He's banned about it in public in most countries in Europe for speaking out against holocaust 'official history' and the publication of his books is very controversial in the U.S. I'll reserve proper judgement until I read one of his books, but I'll be putting that off for some time I think.
I think it's despicable that he was censored, but one trip to Yad Vashem is all you need to debunk anyone that doesn't believe the Holocaust happened. One of the last things you see in the museum is a room filled with binders, each binder filled with the names of the confirmed victims. There are over five million names in those binders.
Ordinary Men is a grizzly, and fascinating look at a reserve unit who carried out the physical actions of the Nazis. To claim good is quite a statement- the party philosophies were abhorrent. There may have been people who saw themselves as good, or took advantage of the title for their own gain, but what the Nazis, and Germany did (along with other nations) is unworthy of any denial. To be painted with a brush as bad may seem unfair, but it isn't. There are plenty of awful groups in history. Holocaust denial, or worse 'it happened to others' as a way of brushing it aside is a kind of ignorance that should be crushed. Genocide has happened and continues to happen, but industrialized genocide is a particular evil of a particular time. It should not be ignored or brushed away. (though as a free speech advocate, I have no problem with those spouting their reprehensible views. They should be allowed to say it, but people should always swamp them with evidence to the contrary)
Hell, it wasn't just the Germans, the Nazis and other countries. It was the Jews, too. While my grandfather was smuggling people out of Europe, others just walked to their deaths without the slightest struggle. I can't have anything against the children or the elderly, but every adult victim that could have put up a fight, but didn't? I hate them all.
Lots of people hoped that it couldn't be true. Or pleaded instead of fought. We like to assume we'd fight if presented with imminent death. It isn't the case.
