What makes HP so good?

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by Rumwriter, May 29, 2011.

  1. Carthonn

    Carthonn Active Member

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    There is a good number of people in this thread presenting their argument of why it's good. When we look at those who say it is not good we aren't getting much.

    I'm starting to lean toward the idea that every party has it's pooper.
     
  2. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    What troubles me is that in embracing a new meaning for the phrase, we are not only losing the old meaning, but also the important concept of logic embodied by it. In a time when arguments seem to be increasingly by whoever pounds the emotional hot buttons the most, that disturbs me. Not a discussion for here, obviously.
     
  3. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    I was an adult when the Harry Potter books came out. Around the time of the third or fourth book, my SO introduced me to them. All the hype surrounding the books made me a little skeptical, but once I started reading them, I was surprised at how imaginative they were.

    I think it's the detailed characters and settings which make the Harry Potter books special. Most characters, from Harry's friends to the Minister of Magic, feel unique. They're quirky, funny and/or revolting, but they almost always engage you emotionally in some way. Hogwarts is a place which is clever, mysterious, and, above all, fun.

    There's an element of wish fulfilment to the books which I think is very appealing to kids. Harry is a mistreated and diminished orphan, who turns out to be better than the family he stays with. Instead of being forced to go to a boring school, he goes to the most exciting school imaginable - ghosts, talking portraits, secret rooms, and so on. Instead of dull classes with droning teachers, he has classes where things explode, come to life or you get to meet mythical creatures. And he gets to do magic! He can make things happen by waving his hands and speaking a few words. My sister-in-law, who went to an afternoon showing of a Harry Potter film, described how the kids in the theatre waved their hands trying to mimic the magic on the screen.

    Things like the school classes, the excursions, the teachers, the magic candy, the magic trading cards, and so on, very closely mirror the child's everyday reality, while at the same time making it more magical and exciting.

    I've also read The DaVinci Code, and while it was an enjoyable read and I was kept in suspense during the whole book, finishing it left me with a feeling of, "Was this all?" It didn't feel like the book left me with anything to remember or think about. I respect Rowling as an author a lot more than I do Brown.
     
  4. Jessica_312

    Jessica_312 New Member

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    I agree.

    I have to say about Rowling -I may pride myself on being fairly creative, but I envy her imagination
     
  5. Braxton

    Braxton New Member

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    Harry Potter is a great example of a novel with great characters and storyworld. Although it is easy to criticize her simplistic writing style and the rather cliche themes and plot, she makes you really care about Harry and the gang. If you haven't noticed, Harry Potter has very little to do with the plot. In fact, many of the chapters read like short stories. Rowling is able to get away with this because the reader wants to know more about Harry Potter and the magical world that he lives in. You know you are reading a book that is character and world driven when the entire third book barely mentions the main antagonist.
     
  6. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    She does make you care... except in all the parts where Harry goes all emo and angry. I mean, seriously dude, harden up. Dumbledore's not coming back.
     
  7. Kio

    Kio New Member

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    This made me laugh. I agree, Harry's hissy fits made me want to smack him up. He was getting out of hand. I remember at the beginning of the fifth book when he actually scared me with his CAPS LOCK attack on Hermione and Ron. It was almost a full page of him ranting about how unfortunate he is and how he doesn't deserve to go through what he's going through. I know the whole dead parents thing weighs down on him and all, but I sort of hated the fact that Ron and Hermione usually let him boss them around. It made me hate him sometimes.
     
  8. darkhaloangel

    darkhaloangel Active Member

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    At the end of the day most readers - or consumers of stories - have no interest in how the book was written or are interested in identifng the particular parts of prose. They are interested in hearing a damn good story. Most importantly though, they are interested in not knowing they are reading a book. A successful part of Rowlings writing is that the words slip away and all the reader is left with is imagery of these fantastical events, people and places. I know from just re-reading a couple of passages (to see where the magic really is) that I soon forgot what I had picked the book up for, and was instantly engrossed with the action. That's why Rowling is good. That is also why Meyers of Twilight infamy is also popular. Personally I hate Meyers, because she writes mediocre and ill though out stories, they are also terribly sexist - but at the end of the day. I picked up the books, noticed they seems a little inept - then forgot about it and read the whole thing. It pains me so say that Meyers has a style of writing that is just so compelling, but she does, and her millions of readers support this - but what Meyers doesn't have, it the awesome storylines and the range of likable, or relatable characters that Rowling has.

    A lot of literary snobs - don't like Rowling or Meyers, because they make it look easy. They make writing look too easy. You look at their prose and think, 'oh I could do that.' There's nothing too technical about it - but what it doesn't have technically (or doesn't appear to have technically) they make up for in passion and soul.
     
  9. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I didn't find them to be particularly sexist. They only read that way if you view gender and power through patriarchy, which is a mistake in my view. But that's another thread :)
     
  10. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    What does that mean? I'm curious.
     
  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Starting a thread on it. Don't want to hijack this one. I'll put it in the Lounge, since it isn't specifically to do with writing.
     
  12. Carthonn

    Carthonn Active Member

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    I think you nailed it with Rowling making it look easy. What is truly sad is the literary snobs rip on authors and have absolutely nothing to back it up. All they have is "Everyone is entitled to their opinion."

    Totally weak.
     
  13. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Anyone who produces a story that resonates with as many readers as those who enjoy Rowling or Meyer has accomplished something significant as a writer.
     
  14. Jessica_312

    Jessica_312 New Member

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    I think Rowling is a far better writer than Meyer, though, I don't even personally think the two can be compared. Meyer's writing style turns me off because she's almost TOO wordy, I tried reading her novel The Host and I got bored really quickly. I was never bored reading Harry Potter though, not once.

    But as some have said, obviously kudos goes to the author for making a concept and crafting a story that clearly resonated with many people - I only wish I could achieve that level of success.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Hmmm. I didn't find Meyer to be wordy at all, Twilight just isn't my type of story. Then again, I'm a huge fan of Mervyn Peake. After you read Gormenghast, nothing seems wordy.
     
  16. Jessica_312

    Jessica_312 New Member

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    LOL true. I think the Twilight novels aren't quite as bad, but The Host - my gosh that thing rambled on and on. Just IMO, of course :D
     
  17. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Never read that one. It will be interesting to see if she can ever duplicate the success of Twilight. I doubt it, unless she continues that story line in some manner, in which case I suppose she'll have a large audience ready to buy.
     
  18. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    Actually "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion" isn't a weak argument, and literary snobs don't use it. It would be a very unsnobbish thing to say. Instead they claim that their opinion is superior despite and very often because their views differ from the so-called masses. Ripping on a popular author doesn't make you a snob, but suggesting that your tastes are more refined does.
     
  19. Carthonn

    Carthonn Active Member

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    It's a weak argument because it's stating the obvious. Tell us something we don't know. Stating something like that shows an inferiority complex and lack of any substance in their argument.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I disagree that it shows an inferiority complex. People with an inferiority complex can't assimilate the idea that intelligent, reasonable people might differ with them. So they cling to the idea that their own opinion is superior, while denigrating those of others.
     
  21. darkhaloangel

    darkhaloangel Active Member

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    I've got to agree, anyone who says that literature is a matter of different opinion is not a snob. However it is usually used as a glib aside by a snob to explain the difference between their superiority in reading and opinion and others lack of such experience. It's usually said in reference to taste i.e. "it is a merely a matter of opinion - and mine is just better[/I."

    This is different to someone stating, 'the work is of high quality and merit, although personally I'm just not interested in the topic.'

    What is heavenly ironic is that the snobs usually only like one particular style or author because they were told to like it. People are told that Shakespeare is good and that we should love him - but let's be honest. Who really things Shakespeare's play (in their readable format) are the sort of thing you read to relax or enjoy? They're of course such people, but there are not many of them. There are more that say they like it because they think it makes them look good. The flip side is they will say others only like Harry Potter because it's popular and that there isn't really anything good about it at all. Same argument different situations.


    For Steerpike mostly:
    "They only read that way if you view gender and power through patriarchy"

    Actually it's more the, 'you must get married to have sex' thing, which personally does stem from a way to control people that does include gender roles. Also Bella as a protagonist doesn't effect her storyline, she waits for men to effect it for her. I mean that's all great and everything, not everyone can be interesting. But she's the protagonist. She's supposed to be the interesting one!

    Also Meryvn Peak! Oh Gosh. Everytime I pick up that book I'm just like, 'the words, the words! Ah I'm drowning in a sea of description!' (Yeah I'm quite melodramatic) And have yet to get very far... YET!
     
  22. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Heh. That's a common reaction to Peake, I think. I like wordy, or very spare writing, depending on my mood and how well the author pulls it off. Sounds like we have differing tastes, though based on your avatar I suspect we share some similar tastes as well.
     
  23. Jessica_312

    Jessica_312 New Member

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    I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with critiquing what published authors have written. When we leave a theater, we think, "Wow, that movie was awesome!" or "Dude, that movie sucked!" Are you automatically labeled a snob just because you thought a movie sucked? Probably not. So why are people being considered snobs now for not liking the way an author writes, and expressing an opinion on it? We all have different likes and dislikes, after all. Now, if a person goes on saying, "Man, I can write better than any author currently on the market. Everything popular automatically sucks because the public doesn't know what good literature is, every popular author writes like a fifth grader. Those who disagree with me simply don't have taste." Now, that statement is blatantly egotistical - it's a blanket statement that insinuates only one opinion can be correct. Blanket statements are never good, and of course implying one's own opinion as gospel is also LAME. But simply critiquing an author's work and expressing dislike? Not egotistical in and of itself. If my work were to ever get published (*fingers crossed*), I would certainly expect there to be more than a few negative opinions about it.

    I agree :D
     
  24. MessrsMoony

    MessrsMoony New Member

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    To me what kept me reading ((Other than Snape)) lol ... was the details and thought process put into the plot and the characters development. There are a lot of complex characters that you can read the books over and over again and still you're learning something you hadn't known before ...
     
  25. Quezacotl

    Quezacotl New Member

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    Good lord I hate HP.

    It's popular due to the Internet, with every fan raving about it, and it grew up with a generation facing the same problems the titular character faces - not as in fighting your parents murderer, fighting a (lame) basilisk, or traveling through time - but instead dealing with issues at home, issues at school, and regret. Therefore by using the power of friends, love, and magic, you can simply wave a wand and solve your problems with minimal excess effort - and that's what appeals to people.
    To the imaginative and daydreaming youth, it seems enticing, no?

    I hate it, I could predict every character's future action, betrayal, fate, etc. Etc. Etc. I hated what it taught: A team is better than the sum of its parts, the only way to succeed is through teamwork, and your own accomplishments will be acredited to the group as a whole. The exact opposite of my ideals- your decisions shape who you become, how successful you are, and how people remember you - so kick reason to the curve and do the impossible. People need a leader, not another hive-minded sheep too afraid to step out of the meadows.
     

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