Novel What will make your book stand out from the crowd?

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by GingerCoffee, Apr 17, 2015.

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  1. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I didn't think of that. It makes sense that this author didn't even write the first sentence. If you read the next few pages, it's not at all in a style that matches. And the publishers on the panel all talked about the changes they worked on with the authors.

    As for, not buying stories that are well written, I don't think that's true for the majority of popular books. And "well written" can mean a lot of different things.

    I do wonder if this author simply caught the YA fantasy wave.
     
  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This comes down to the genre or audience you are writing for. EBooks don't sit on the shelf in the grocery isle. And they don't fill grade school school libraries. However, some say 50 Shades sold because people could buy it in secret in the e-market.

    For now, it probably does matter. But the market is in flux.
     
  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    May be. I think editors looking for commercial fiction are primarily looking for salability, and not necessarily writing quality. That doesn't mean the writing quality can be terrible, but I think popular fiction runs the gamut of works that are pretty well-written and works that are merely competent in terms of the author's writing ability, and as best I can tell the different between having amazing writing ability and merely being a competent writer doesn't really match up to a difference in sales levels.
     
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  4. Hwaigon

    Hwaigon Senior Member

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    I mean, how important is it to cast a respectable first sentence? If you throw one, good. If you don't it won't cast a bad light onto
    the whole of your book.
     
  5. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Re poorly written interesting books: We pay selective attention to poorly written work that went viral like Twilight, and Divergent.

    But I've been looking at lots of books and the ones I really like are not poorly written. It may be that I've gotten a bit jaded because mu critique group is into conflict. (Not physical conflict necessarily.) The conflict in Wings is practically non-existent in the first few pages. She smiles at a boy, he likes her, they have lunch together. I don't see a hook at all. There's conflict later. It's not like there isn't any. I have more books to review here from the GoodReads list, we'll see.

    Re having to have a first good sentence, that's not what I was saying @Hwaigon. I merely meant it might be the thing that catches a publisher's eye.
     
  6. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Sometimes I think Ya fiction plays by it's own rules. I was happy as a clam with my junk fiction as a child. My Sweet Dreams romances could be wonderfully written or very poorly written. They were so busy trying to fulfill the demand that quality control went out the window.
     
  7. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I feel like we should lift the last couple posts over to the "Why are Stephen King and [whoever else] so popular" thread.

    I agree, it's not about the writing. Characters, story, hitting the zeitgeist... not the writing.

    I mean, the writing has to be competent. It can't get in the way of the story. And if you're aspiring to literary greatness, the writing is more important. But for genre? Not the deciding factor.
     
  8. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I don't think it's just YA. I mean, maybe there's MORE flexibility in YA, but most genre fiction isn't being sold based on its lyrical prose.
     
  9. Hwaigon

    Hwaigon Senior Member

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    I also didn't stress its necessity, I merely doubted it, if I'm getting myself right.
     
  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I don't know. I think a lot of what we're discussing also applies to commercial adult fiction that ends up being successful even though the writing isn't particularly stellar.
     
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  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This is an interesting discussion: Literary Fiction vs. Genre Fiction

    I don't accept the claim there is such a clear divide. Genre fiction has at least the potential to be both an escape from reality and an emotional journey at the same time. Not that it is common, but the idea of these categories being sharply divided doesn't fit with my view.

     
  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    @GingerCoffee I think you're right. And a lot of literary fiction is also genre fiction, right? There is literary fiction that certainly fits the definitions of genres like horror or fantasy.
     
  13. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Agree. It's probably that YA can be easier to pick on. :)

    The trouble is you kinda need these crummy bestsellers they're the big fish that keep the little fishes of general fiction going. Who would really invest in a book called A Short history of tractors in Ukrainian if they didn't have a bestseller covering the cost if it became a flop? Good writing aside the only thing that made Lewycka's book popular was the awards and the talk. As authors we need the bestsellers if we don't want to write anything along the lines of magic, monsters, superpowers, werewolves etc.
     
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  14. PiP

    PiP Contributor Contributor

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    Marketing will make your book stand out from the crowd. You gotta get people to buy it first :)

    When I buy a book online and there are 100's , nay 1000s of titles to chose from, I hate to admit that I'm first drawn to the cover, then the title and then the blurb about the book. Don't underestimate the powers of Social Media for spreading the word because even if you've penned an incredible book if no one has ever heard of it it matters little how well it is written.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
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  15. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I found this article in the NewYorker interesting:
    A Better Way to Think About the Genre Debate
    I love the reference to a partisan debate. And the invented words are clever:

    The history of the 'partisan debate' is fascinating.
    I think this illustrates the difference between my asking what makes a book stand out and the other thread that discusses why certain books are popular. It comes to mind from time to time as I write, wondering if a certain element will make my book an enterprise, all the while I'm really trying to write art.

    ** [side note] I can't agree that Hunger Games is a romance, though. I thought the Animal Farm theme was far more important in that story.
     
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  16. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Personally, Wings is one of my top three favorite books. I was never much of a reader, and Wings was the first book that I picked up when I started. It's what inspired me to write. And I still love it to this day.

    As I said in my first post in this thread, setting really gets me. And I found the description of settings in Wings to be magical and beautiful. I also loved her take on faeries (how differently she did it) and the strangeness of Laurel. The other books get much darker, especially the final book, so the series isn't as great to me as the first book. But I still love the series, Wings in particular. It's a book very close to my heart, and I recommend it to everyone.

    But that's the point of this post, isn't it? A book one person thinks is "okay," another thinks is terrific.
     
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  17. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    When someone describes what is being churned out by publishers as, "a lot of action or seem focused on creating an experience to frame their moral/idea/value," it makes me nervous, not because I don't write that, but because I do. When I am at my best, I write dramatic, high octane, fiction. I can't change that. You'll never see a "Tuesdays with Morrie" or "The Fault in our Stars" coming off my printer. So, I'm looking at your concern from the other angle. How do I make my stories stand out from everybody else who is writing the same general thing? I believe it is all about the skill by which you encode a compelling theme and having fully filled out characters. (Since that is my style, I sim to write t in the best way I can. Someday, I will write a story as good as "ET: The Extra-Terrestrial").
     
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  18. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    Actually, genre becomes complex only when it is overthought. Genre is a marketing tool. The only touchpoint it has to the actual content of a story is how it signals to the consumer what is in the story. "Literary fiction" has traditionally been anti-genre because "literary fiction" has traditionally been anti-consumption, which is to say that authors of "literary fiction" have wanted to see themselves as iconoclasts attacking the marketplace.
     
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  19. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I'll have to go back and peruse the forest description.
     
  20. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    The love triangle isn't something that will make the novel stand out, but it kind of is what especially female readers seem to like. In Twilight and Hunger Games the heroine got the affections of two guys, right? I don't know about Divergent; at least there's some older guy, which is also another pandering-to-the-female-readership trope. In Mercy Thompson novels, at one point she had like 3 guys competing for her attention. Hell, the formula seems to work. If I think back to when I was in the YA audience; I was awkward, ugly, and not popular among guys -- and, of course, the quintessential bookworm. I bet I would've devoured HG and Divergent at that age, day-dreamed about being a beautiful action heroine who was clever and witty, who could fight, shoot guns, get the hot guy(s) etc etc. So I wonder, looking at, say top 100 best-selling YA novels, how many of them have some of these things in common (love triangle, action heroine, cleverness).
     
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  21. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I'm strange apparently. Because I read a lot of YA, and unless the love story is the main focus, for the most part, I don't even notice it. lol

    When Hunger Games went to theaters, I was really mad that they made it all about the love triangle between Katniss, Peeta, and Gale. Because when I read it, I didn't get the impression that Katniss liked either of them. But then I read it again, after watching the movie, and THEN I saw the love triangle. lol

    So to me, I didn't feel like Divergent had much of a love story. But since that's not something I really pay attention to, I'm not the best judge. :p

    Also, for the record, the girl in Divergent is sixteen and the guy is eighteen. In the book anyway. In the movie, he's supposed to be closer to twenty one.
     
  22. archerfenris

    archerfenris Active Member

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    I agree entirely. It is impossible to write a book everyone will like. I'm not suggesting you do that. What I am suggesting, however, is that you increase your awareness of who your readers may be. Even if you break your readers down into an identifiable group, they're still a very diverse crowd (My wife and I, for example, are very different people yet we both read fantasy). You can still write a book most sci-fi/fantasy readers would like (hopefully)...you just have to be careful it's not a book only you would like.

    To further my argument, this whole love triangle, in my opinion, alienates male readers (or at least those who think like me). I remember hating Katniss the entire series (I'm in the Haymitch camp here). She was insufferable! Nothing is more annoying than an indecisive person who doesn't know what they want. Perhaps it appeals to female readers, but it absolutely gets my blood boiling.

    To divert from my original argument, this is particularly interesting. Lately, there seems to be a focus in literature of realism when the exact opposite is what readers want. Me, the average Joe, may sit next to a beautiful woman at some point in the day. In real life, nothing will happen. But, in fiction, the hero saves the world, punches Hitler in the face, and gets the girl. People want victory in spite of impossible odds, amazing romances, and they always want Karma. To quote what a coworker of mine said a few days ago, "I don't want to read about anything that could actually happen in my own life."

    Feel free to vehemently disagree with me ;)
     
  23. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    If you examine YA, you'll find big gaps in stuff it should be including. Other than Percy Jackson, has there even been a strong male lead in YA since Potter? The publishers keep churning out "outcast, though beautiful and charismatic, girl fights the evil powers that be while dealing with a love triangle". :bigmeh:

    So, my WIP has a male lead who actually likes his step-dad.
     
  24. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    I don't like this either, and anyone for whom I've beta-read has gotten an earful about my hate towards indecisive heroines. :D And heroes for that matter... I don't like characters who can't make decisions in general, heh. But, when I was a teen, when I hung out with other teens -- I cannot deny the appeal in having two hot guys vying for your attention.

    In real life, the bros would be like "why are we jumping through hoops of fire for this hoe? She's just stringing us along without giving us any! Let's have a beer!" :p :D

    Don't look at me, I don't disagree at all! @T.Trian and I are probably going against the grain in this respect. I don't think that type of realism will make a good seller, be it YA or something else, but it's what we enjoy, so that's how we write. Granted, we do have a heroine of sorts, but she never gets the Guy... and even the Guy doesn't get the Other Guy. No one gets the guy or the girl! :( Perhaps it will make the book stand out? Or it will just make it something that only 4 people in the entire world will enjoy reading... Don't get me wrong, crazy things happen, just like crazy things happen in real life, but it's really how they're resolved where one might see the difference. There's no huge payoff, no crowds cheering and applauding, no glory. I know some people would absolutely hate it, but they'd also notice if we didn't really mean it, so maybe it's better to write what you mean, what you really want to say? And maybe, maybe that will make one's book stand out. Or, alternatively, I'm being a complete idealist and actually it just all comes down to luck and whatever is popular at the time and whether or not your face is marketable enough. :bigmeh:
     
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  25. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Be careful about misattributing quotes, thanks.
     

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