Novel What's Your Writing Process?

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by ACCERBYSS, May 26, 2008.

  1. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Thoughts.... all of us write differently, so find a style that fits you. Margaret Mitchell wrote the last chapter of Gone with the Wind first, and the other chapters in no particular order.

    There are two broad classes of writers: planners and pantsers.

    Planners do all of the work up front, with detailed character sketches covering everything about their characters, and an outline that covers all major and minor events, twists and turns. Then when they go to write, they just fill in the blanks. I write technical reports and documents that way, but not fiction. I don't mean to disparage this approach, but it isn't mine, and I think I would write really boring stuff if I did this.

    I am a pantser, one who writes by the seat of my pants. My WIP had a broad outline when I began: Roman diplomatic mission goes to China by sea, face some crisis that nearly kills the mission off stillborn. In the Chinese court, some intrigue, and Chinese culture come in to some conflict with Roman honor that forces them to choose between honor and expediency, with some or all condemned to death, dramatic escape and return to Rome overland.That was 20 years and 260K words ago. I had no idea how this would all happen, or who would play a part.

    I began with three characters, the ambassador, a senior Roman officers and a centurion, quickly added a pirate (who became one of the heroes) and their shipping master in cahoots with the pirate who was, and remained, a villain. I knew very little about these people when I began: the ambassador was the officer's cousin, which was why he was requested. The officer was with a Syrian legion, and wanted to bring his centurion, with whom he had a long soldiering experience. The centurion was near the end of his 26 year service, and really did not want to make this stupid trip to some mythical land of the Han. Bit by bit, details emerged on these people. I had a pretty good idea how these people would react: the ambassador upperclass, businesslike and not too snobbish, the officer a very professional leader, good and close to his people, the centurion very much a rough cut, up from the ranks senior NCO in modern terms. As the story evolved, they told me little bits and pieces of how they came to be that way. And surprised me, sometimes. I was a third of the way through the book, before I learned that my heroine, a concubine of a Chinese official, was frequently beaten by him. That explained her reticence and self-effacement in the beginning, and why she evolved into such a strong character at the end... she would never go back to that kind of life again.

    As for editing, I find that editing and writing are incompatible. When I am writing new material, I let it flow. I will clean up grammar and spelling, and obvious errors like wrong person talking, at the end of each paragraph, and again at the end of the chapter. But major struggles for just the right turn of phrase, details on integrating the story, these I save for the revisions, which comes AFTER the story is finished. Writing is creative, and I have to keep the vision of the finished WIP in mind; editing is critical and can kill my creative juices if I inject it before completion. In fact the reason this sat on my hard drive for ten years was due to premature editing, which made me feel this was all crap!
     
  2. RikWriter

    RikWriter Member

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    I begin by opening up a 200 page college ruled notebook and writing down any stray ideas that flow through my head. I write down every possibility for a general story idea until one sounds better than another. Then I make a very basic outline of how the story should unfold (that will almost invariably change many times over the course of writing).
    If I don't already have characters developed, I'll come up with them at that point.
    Then I will make a detailed outline of the first few chapters---no further than chapter 3 or so at first.
    Then I will actually sit down on the laptop and start writing the first chapter. That usually goes very slowly because it's a laborious process, but sometimes it will gush out like it was ready made.
    After writing 3 or 4 chapters, I'll sit down and write down possibilities for the next few chapters, and when one sounds good I will outline those next chapters then sit down to write.
    Doing it this way, I do most of my content editing on the fly and don't do much, if any, content editing after completing the book.
    After the book is completed, I do several proof-reads for spelling, grammar and continuity proofing. Then finally I format it correctly and work up a good cover before uploading it to Amazon for Kindle.
     
  3. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    What doesn't work for me: Getting an idea for a scene and just writing it out, and trying to develop the story around afterwards. I did that for a lot of years and it never got anywhere.

    What I've discovered that actually really works:
    I first develop my MC, and - after I'm comfortable with the basic personality (and that doesn't mean I have got to understand why he reacts the way he does), I start with a scene which has no (or almost no) contact with the storyline that has developed within my head.
    And that's it, the story is running because the MC has his own ideas about how to go from there. During writing I hear a lot of music, and whenever an idea pops into my head as in "Oh yeah, they should take the time to get comfortable, just about between this action and that trouble ahead" I write these as notes down in a very broad proper sequence. This eventually starts getting synthetized into a detailed account of chapters. This is a continually questioning process. During writing, when my MC starts down a path where I had never imagined him going I make adjustments to the timeline based on what he actually does. I mean, this is a 3d character (at least to me), and I have to let him make his own choices. Sounds a bit schizophrenic, yes ;)
    I try to have the outline of the next three chapters sorted out, but it is not set in stone *sigh*. Just happened this morning to me, a major reassessment. Fortunately for chapters way down the line :p
     
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  4. Gabriel-learner

    Gabriel-learner New Member

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    I think that "Lifeline" is right with the "MC first" way of pre-writing. Yet, I believe we tend to use the majority of the methods listed above while we're writing. We just adapt from time to time and we approach each page differently. Or at least that's what I do. At first, I write a beginning, guided by pure creativity. Then I do a lot of pre-writing as taking notes, creating the characters, finding messages, causes; building the whole world that will stand in the novel. This involves Philosophy too. Then I wrote the end, as Edgar Allan Poe used to. At this point, I can follow my story, even changing the rules at mid-work, but the basics have to be already there.
     
  5. AASmith

    AASmith Senior Member

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    Wow so this has changed so much that I thought I would update lol.

    No more outlines that's for sure. I dont even remember what I was refering to in this post, the "i've got about 1000 words so far" probably because i didn't get past that 1000 words lol.

    1. So i started a new process of thinking about the story I want to write for a while
    2. Write it.

    That is basically it. My goal is to get the 1st draft done. I have about 16,000 words out of 70,000 that I want to have. Then I will edit and edit and edit. It has been working for me so far as I have only started writing seven days ago. Currently my guideline is 4,000 words a day.
     
  6. ToeKneeBlack

    ToeKneeBlack Banned

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    I wrote my first story without a plan - just a beginning and an end. Then I got to the end and realised it lacked something, so I put the old ending in the middle and created a new ending, effectively doubling the length of the story.

    My current WIP was planned, chapter by chapter, to take advantage of the details set up in the first story and to stay consistent. With a sentence or two describing the events of each chapter, I then flesh them out to create the first draft, which will be tidied up later.

    With any luck, I'll have something even more enjoyable than my first story.
     
  7. AASmith

    AASmith Senior Member

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    I also wanted to add something, something i did yesterday. In my mind i had an idea as to how the story should go, basically how it will end and so forth. Well yesterday I got to the point in my story that I had been waiting to get to. This was the point where my character would go on this amazing journey and everything would change. Well I got there and realize, it didn't feel right. I felt all wrong for my character but because i had planned for this to I felt i had to push through. Then i remembered what Stephen King said, something about letting your characters lead you, so I did and in that moment I made a change, not huge but kinda. However once i decided to go in a different direct and allow my character to lead me, the words starting flowing! This is another reason I do not work with outlines anymore. I feel like in the past outlines causes so much writers block.
     
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  8. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Writing is ultimately individual. Margaret Mitchell started with the last chapter of "Gone With the Wind" and wrote the others in no particular order.

    However, she would probably never get published today. No pagination, some pages handwritten, some typed, all scribbled out and re-edited without rewriting clean copy.

    A publisher came south in the 20s looking for stories of the Civil War from the South's perspective, and someone referred him to her. Very few of her friends knew she had even written anything, and no one had ever seen it. She reluctantly gave the publisher a stack of the above mess (reportedly four feet high), and he took it on a train to read on his way home. After a few hours, she sent a telegram asking for it back. He said he liked it, didn't give it back, and hired a mass of typists for a year to organize, edit and correct it. The rest is history.

    I don't recommend anyone to use this approach with publishers today.

    However, your writing style is unique to you. If you find yourself bogged down, write the way you want to write, not the way you think you should. And writing and editing are two separate mindsets. Some can combine them, I can't.
     
  9. thespian

    thespian Member

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    I usually get the initial spark at very random moments. A character, or a line pops out and I get this urge to grant him a specific voice. Then what I need to do is to give him a purpose of existence if I find him interesting enough of course. I think about what he looks like, where-when-how he's living his life and decide what his overall objective is going to be. Once I figure that out I will usually include other characters and get the show on the road.
     
  10. LemonadeLover

    LemonadeLover Member

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    I'd never be able to use that approach, I'd be too worried that everything I'd written was unintelligible. Though I wish I could find an editor to make my story come to life like that.
     
  11. shenry33

    shenry33 New Member

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    I have read a lot of different articles on process writing and was told having an outline is the best thing to begin writing on any topic. always answer the WHO, What, when and why.
     
  12. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Depends on you. Are you a planner or discoverer? My WIP began 20 years ago when I learned that Romans had a presence in Chinese court in 166AD, started me thinking what was the first Roman trip to China like? Why did they go? How did they get there? What kind of cultural clashes did they encounter?

    basic outline was
    1. Romans go to China @ 100AD, with two soldiers, senior officer and senior centurion, by ship
    2. Latin/Chinese translators are bilingual descendants of Roman survivors of Battle of Carrhae in 55BC, resettled ultimately in Liqian, Gansu province, (historically may be correct)
    3. One translator is female
    4. Ship will get hijacked by pirate
    5. Get to China, some problem involving the woman and centurion, somebody has to choose between mission or Roman honor, break somebody out of jail.
    6. Come back by Silk Road, many adventures
    7. Find the Chinese were impressed by choice of honor.

    I couldn't do any more outlining at the start because
    a. I hadn't met my characters yet.
    b. I knew little about Roman trading in the Indian Ocean other than the money involved in the trade was cause for concern by Pliny the Elder (100M sesterces/yr, about $400M today)
    c. I knew virtually nothing about China @100AD
    d. I knew even less about the Silk Road, other than it was open and very active at the time.

    After I wrote the first chapter, I learned that the senior officer was urbane, witty, athletic, named Gaius Lucullus. He is friends with and has soldiered with the centurion for most of their two careers. Lots of friendly banter, like between a LtCol and senior sergeant that know each other well and have very few secrets. He is built like a quarterback, lithe and fast. Learned swordsmanship from centurion.

    Centurion is Antonius Aristides, of Greek descent, up from the ranks, coarse talking, slurred Latin, built like a defensive linebacker, 250 lbs of lean muscle. Black hair, and hairy arms. Swordsmanship instructor for the legion, taught Gaius when the latter a young tribune.

    Next chapter had Gaius being detached from legion. Learned he was requested by his cousin Galba the ambassador, he was attached to the Legio XII Fulminata, the Twelfth Lightning Bolt, forward-deployed in Syria. Promise of command of his own, (so he is about equal to a Lt Col) if the mission succeeds. His commander discusses why: who/what is the big, powerful entity, the Hanaeans (Han Chinese) to the east of their archenemy Parthia? Could they get them to ally with Rome in a future war with Parthia? Or perhaps they should settle their differences with Parthia, ally with them against this mysterious eastern powerhouse? Big unknown, his job to find out. Gaius has choice of one man, he picks Antonius, and we learn that Antonius is primus pilus, first lance, the senior centurion of the legion and almost irreplaceable. He gets him anyway. And we learn, when Gaius breaks the news to Antonius, that Antonius is socially self-conscious, does not see himself being anything but an embarrassment to the high societies, Roman and foreign, that he will have to move in. Profluit ex satio, it all flows downhill, Gaius really didn't have a choice, Antonius doesn't either, needs to pick his relief. We learn that he is concerned that his second doesn't have the backbone yet to stand up against the "orficers," so we learn that Antonius has no problems speaking blunt truth to senior leadership. Gaius cautions him about women problems, indicating that may be a problem for him.

    All of these things revealed themselves to me as I wrote them... I didn't use the first chapter in the final version. It was a flash forward to China which showed they found the culture very different from Roman culture, though I reused some of it later.

    Bottom line, I didn't know any of this until I wrote it.

    Really spooky when years after starting, I learned there was an actual Chinese mission to Rome in 97AD under Gan Ying. That simplified getting my translators to Rome from Gansu (the Chinese needed them too, and brought them) and used that as the trigger for the Roman mission which was now a return mission. Revised my beginning.

    Bottom line, get started and write. Even if you don't use what you write, you will learn something about your characters, the setting and the plot.
     
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  13. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Research materials about the things unknown. Come up with a few decent characters, and a theme. Make it up as I go, creating more unexpected turns within the story. Have fun and create character art of the MC's to get a general idea of what they might look like (more like concept art, as the reader can imagine them how they wish). :p
     
  14. PBNJDraftNumbA

    PBNJDraftNumbA Member

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    Deleted.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  15. Justin Phillips

    Justin Phillips Active Member

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    I start with a notebook and pencil and just write it out like it is supposed to be the final draft. No outlines or anything, although I can't say it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to try that! Then, I transcribe everything into the computer, and that's where all the magic happens. Since I've already completed the chapter, some things that are new ideas toward the end of my chapter might pop out to me as I'm transcribing, and I can implement them into the beginning as well. My prose gets refined in this process too, as I'm taking more time now to think about how it sounds when read. I don't worry about all of that when in the notebook stage, at that point I'm just getting it down out of my head.

    It just occurred to me that my writing process may be as as disorganized as this post!
     
  16. Justin Phillips

    Justin Phillips Active Member

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    This also kind of reflects my process, although I've never finished anything so I haven't had to write a sypnosis or query letter yet! lol
     
  17. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Not disorganized, sounds like you are a pantser (discoverer). I have spent most of the last 50 years writing technical material of some kind or another for Navy weapons systems, so I understand the value of an outline. In fact if I am writing professionalyl, I write the chapters, subheadings and sub-subheading first, numbering them if necessary. Then I fill in the blanks. Everyone says my work is very readable and well-written, and they keep paying me after a half-century. But if I wrote my fiction that way, I think it would wind up sounding like a tech manual! Maybe I just rebel against that rigorous approach!

    Nothing disorganized about it, @Justin Phillips . Margaret Mitchel wrote the last chapter of "Gone with the Wind" first, and the others in no particular order, and I believe even not consistent in names for characters. Some were typed, some were handwritten and all were overwritten with corrections. And that is how it went to the publisher, who wanted to see a story about the Civil War, from the South's perspective by a Southerner. This was late 20s so the Civil War was closer to them than WWII is to us. And the rest is history.

    However you write, write.
     
  18. Brindy

    Brindy Senior Member

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    I used to have a blog written from my dog's point of view, which got me into writing an adventure for him and his brother. It is historically based as they travel back in time, so 3 months research, timeline drafted, key points to be included in the story decided upon, and the characters developed. Then I sat down in the middle of the night, when everyone else was in bed and started to create. Somehow, it all came together and 25 chapters later, I have a complete manuscript and a second novel in the planning stage, while I edit the first to make it ready to publish. Fortunately, I don't need much sleep as I work full time as well, but can only write creatively in the middle of the night. I think the whole thing has taken about a year so far.
     
  19. Buttered Toast

    Buttered Toast Active Member

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    I might be wrong as I'm new at this too!
    But I have always thought that with any idea it's always going to be messy to start off with.
    I'm like you, I have so many ideas for my book that I got overwhelmed but never lost an idea, I wrote them all down, I'm also disorganised, but this didn't stop me, if I loose where I was going to place a part of my story I just continue until it comes to me, by all accounts I knew I was going to read through it at least 3 times so I knew I could slot the ideas in, or change them around later.
    I think I'm a relaxed writer, I can't afford to let my disorganised 'Mind' get the better of me lol
    I start with a rough write down, I write everything in a note book, I also have an extra note book with all the characters names, what they look like, where they come from what magic they use and so on.
    Next I type it up on 'Pages' an app I use so I can link it to my phone and if I have time out and about I can jot things in, I also capture new ideas this way too.
    Then I read through it and make corrections, at this point I do a massive overhaul, I can even remove whole chapters, or even replace characters.
    My second read through allows my to focus on mistakes.
    And my third read through I just want to be happy with it, I change parts to make it flow better and so on.
    I now need an editor! Lol
    I hope this helps x
     
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  20. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    I'd have to agree with this.
     
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  21. TheSerpantofNar

    TheSerpantofNar Active Member

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    I used to and still do write spontaneously but I've tried too plan more. In one short story I'm writing I know the ending but it's the journey of getting there. I also research more now to enhance the atmosphere and place.
     
  22. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    And I'll third that!

    It's messy because at the start, you don't know all the answers. You may (or may not) know a rough outline of the story, or possibly the direction you want the story to head in, but not necessarily the whole kit and kaboodle, the whos and the whys and the hows and the wherefores.

    I too, write out of sequence and then piece parts together as that's just how my mind works. I need to get the bits that I know, out of my head so that I can then concentrate on the bits I don't know.
     
  23. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    I do all the out-of-sequence stuff in outlines, but usually after at least one 'pantsy' draft.

    At least, that's how I've been doing things so far. I'm hoping that eventually I'll be able to skip the pantsy drafts and just do an outline. I hate that it's taking me so long to write my WIP and really don't wanna it to take so long next time around.
     
  24. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I don't think there's any set time. My first fiction was done in seven months, but the basis of the story had been in my head for 20+ years. The follow up, (which has just come back from the editor) has taken me nearly three years because I thought I'd written it all in book one. Book two started with a simple question and ended up as a 205k word novel.
     
  25. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    I won't give away my entire process but i will say this one thing; it involves a lot of crying.
     
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