When Is It Okay To Commit Suicide?

Sorry here Baywriter I kind of disagree on that note. I understand your reasons. Well as much as is Possible not knowing the full facts.

But Suicide happens for many reasons and alot of suicide comes from those suffering.

When I was in Afghanistan on the roads in the desert we would come across many tied up spread eagled on the side of the road. Those people had, had their hands and feet cut off and other un-mentionable things done to them. They we're in so much pain that the only merciful thing that could be done was to take that pain away. Some of these men women and children had been burnt after been covered in petrol. You cannot imagine the sight let along the pain. They begged to be put down. BEGGED. You just cannot imagine that and worse still some of these people couldn't be cut free because they had been booby trapped.

I'm sorry Baywriter but you cannot condemn Suicide not from all the different aspects.

I tell you this. Sometimes when i close my eyes I still see them especially the young. It took me nearly a year to sleep in my bed.

You just cannot imagine that.

 

For the last time, I AM NOT condemning anyone. I would always want to help someone that needed it, and I think that sometimes that requires them knowing that it's selfish. Even if you're in pain, whether physical or emotional, I don't think it's okay. That's my opinion.

That's all really horrible Raven, and I understand that, but... I will say that it can be JUST as bad when suffering is caused by an emotional issue. One is not worse than the other, and I've been on that emotional side.

From every standpoint the fact remains the same: other people are getting hurt for your benefit. Whether the circumstances are wrong or right for suicide, it is STILL selfish. That's the only point I was trying to make.

 

You do have a point, Raven, and so do you, Torana. Certainly there are situations where there is real suffering that cannot be allebviated by any means available. And forcing someone to endure when there is no possible relief may be heartless.

But much of what I have seen makes me agree with Baywriter. The majority of suicides are manipulative, selfish acts by people who are taking the ultimate escape from consequences. Their life turns to crud, so rather than stick it through and deal with it, they dump the mess and the guilt into others' laps. Worse yet, because they are on their way out of retribution, they do as much damage as they can on the way out.

In these cases, and I truly believe they VASTLY outnumber the justifiable cases, it's just the final eff you to those left behind.

 

When put like that I have to say fair enough. The main point I was making was that we cannot judge every case but like you say there are those that are "manipulative, selfish acts by people who are taking the ultimate escape from consequences." And I agree with you fully on that note.

I guess this is a touchy topic after all.....

 

But, just to play devil's advocate, I would like to ask the question:

If they were willing to do something you deem that destructive, what might they do if they are still alive? Say they turn to a heavy drug and ruin themselves, how much better would that outcome be?

memeto mori

 

Well, I would also argue that drug use is sometimes a means of gradual suicide that avoids the critical moment of decision.

For a philosophical discussion of suicide, Albert Camus' writings on existentialism are an excellent place to begin.

 

Thank you maia. It is good to know someone can understand where I was coming from with what I stated. I hope she will pass peacefully in her sleep as well. Though it will be a couple more years for my mother before she is too badly in that state.

Suicide is devastating and breaks many peoples hearts. No matter what the reason, it still will destroy many peoples hearts and lives and has done so many times.

 

It may destory lives but hang on, isn't it selfish of everyone else? This person who feels pain beyond imagination, physical and mental anguish needs to be selfish. Ok, sometimes, but honestly, the amount of times I have seen in posts it's selfish and how could anyone do that? annoys the crap outta me.

I feel like killing myeslf a few times. Mental torture. I get so sick of caring about what anyone else is feeling and for once I want to focus on myself.

Selfish as I may be, but I would of done myself in a while ago now if I hadn't met my Boyfriend. Stupid. Silly. Uncontrollable anguish is the most horrid feeling. You feel so lost. You feel like everything is sucking you into a massive black hole.


So I am seeing this from the other side. The side where you want to die. You want to take a knife and drag it across the skin and watch the blood flow. Selfish, yes, but isn't it selfish to make this person live a life they don't want to live anymore, I mean, ok, they save this person. But do they make any effort after that? I'm not talking weeks, I'm talking months, years after saving them or calling the ambulance in time.

Help those that do want to commit suicide by staying by their side. Not fob them off after it seems 'safe'.

 

See i made the mistake once about not listening to someone that was calling out for help and she is now dead from suicide....now that in my part was selfish....

Someone says they want to it is a cry for help and we as humans and decent people have to be there to help. Even if it is just attention, one day it might not be and they may just do it!!! Normally someone saying they want to or are going to will end up doing it or trying at some point.

 

Yea, but isn’t it selfish to say your daughter has to suffer because you’ll get upset if they kill themselves? Isn’t that just as fricking selfish?! Are you seriously telling me that you should have to spend your life wishing you were dead in case you upset a few people, because that sounds ridiculous to me.

Yea, so just because you pulled through it means everyone else can. People are not all as strong as you. I am glad you pulled through BayWriter, it takes a lot of effort, but a lot of people cannot do it. There are people in mental institutions who are never going to leave because they are too ill so why the hell should they just sit there and suffer for the rest of their life?

 

^exactly.

 

If anyone here does it. we will never speak to you again.
enough said.

 

Heather I know that not everyone makes it through it. But there are a lot of people who think that they have to go through it alone. But the thing is that they don't have to.
I know how hard it is to not believe that, but there are so many people out there who are wanting to help people who feel this way.

I have seen many people go down this road with thinking about suicide and it broke my heart. I've sat with people who have tried and spoken with them about it. It really is heart breaking to hear what they have to say and to convince them that they are loved and cared about is not an easy thing to do.

I won't stand here and call someone a coward, I will stand here and sat to them that I am sorry they feel that way and re-assure them that there is someone that cares enough to hold there hand, give them a smile, or even a hug and let them know that they are special and that they don't have to go through it on their own anymore.

Suicide, I wouldn't describe as cowardly, I would more say it is devastating and heart breaking and lonely! Very lonely. My only hope is that people out there who feel this way, that they are alone and want to commit suicide, find someone with a big enough heart to confide in and just be held by so that once they can feel what it is like to know someone cares....

I think that they just need to know that no matter how hard life gets, it is always going to get better. It always does. And that they are never alone! No one ever is alone. Someone always cares even if they don't show it well, they DO STILL CARE ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No. But look at the burden that left on you. That is one of the legacies of suicide, that "I should have listened" onus.

Sometimes that call for help is more of a demand for attention, an extrapolation of "I'll hold my breath until you speak to me!"

Although everyone laughs at the scene in Blazing Saddles where the new black Sheriff holds a gun to his own head, and says, "One false move and the **** gets it!" it mirrors a serious kind of emotional blackmail that is not laughable in the least.

Believe me, it is not a rare scenario.

 

Yeah I know Cogito. It can be a cry for attention. But sometimes just by giving them the attention does really help them a long. Not giving them the attention can sometimes lead to an attempt.

It is hard to distinguish between a cry for help and a cry for attention. I've been witnessed to both though. But the situation I mentioned earlier I was on drugs and drunk and was more interested in partying when a friend was in desperate need.

But then forgiving yourself is a different thing and that I have done now....can't dwell on the past forever. I know that sounds harsh, but dwelling on past pains can be a major factor in depression and going down that road yourself.

 

Or else giving them the attention reinforces the behavior. Before you know it, you are the hostage to their threat of self-destruction.

 

Yes very true. It is a very sticky situation to be put into that is for sure.

 

I have on 3 different occasions stopped suicide attempts on the internet.
I managed to get a hold of police in the city they lived in and they went and ended taking the people to the hospital.
They all came back to say thank you but then tried it again a couple of times.
Makes me wonder about their mental stability.
It certainly shakes a board up when this happens.
I would never turn down when asked to help just don't always know what to do.

 

I know that feeling all too well lessa. It can be very hard to know what to do and what to say. Sometimes saying what you think is right is the wrong thing to do.

 

I've had to deal with situation before as well, lessa, more than once. We've had to network with people who knew the person in question's real identity and location, while everyone else tried to keep that person conscious or in the house, and talking.

All kinds of people get pulled into it, online and otherwise. Maybe a life is saved, maybe it wasn't in the peril it appeared to be. If I seem jaded, it's because I've seen a lot of manipulation taking place before, during, and after these incidents.

 

I think its ok to commit suicide when people dont talk to you on forums!!!!!!


No seriously i think its not ok because you're taking the easy way out instead of facing up to your problems!

 

Thoroughly approve. Have tried it several times, and failed, to the great disappointment of others, no doubt.

 

Those people should GET HELP. Not kill themselves. People CAN do it. It's a matter of TRYING. I thought I couldn't do it at all. I was so far down that I didn't think I could get back up until I TRIED to do something about it. If someone is mentally incapable, then the people that care about them should get them help. Clearly I'm talking to someone who's never experienced the loss of someone who commited suicide. There's guilt. Devastation. Fear. There's always that awful question:

"What did I do wrong?"

I will admit that there may be some cases where suicide might seem appropriate, but that doesn't mean it isn't selfish. It's going to be whatever way you look at it. And sure, trying to keep someone alive may be just as selfish, but so is suicide. That is the ONLY point I was trying to make. If people would stop getting on my case about it, that would be helpful.

 

i have to agree with you, heather... the selfishness being bandied about here is more on the side of those whose lives are not too painful to continue, not from those who should be allowed to do what they want with their body... as ayn rand put it so well and strongly in her writings--especially in her seminal novel, 'atlas shrugged'--no one should have to live their life for another...

all you who go on about how suicide is a selfish act should also admit that life is, too... and we all should have the right to our own lives... to force someone you supposedly love to live on in hideous pain and suffering, simply because you'll miss them if they're gone, is the absolute worst kind of selfishness!

that's so silly it's nonsensical!... how can anyone 'get help' from having been burned over 90% of their bodies and having their hands and feet cut off?...

how can an old person 'get help' from having to lie in their own piss and feces and not know who they are or where they are or who their family members are, anymore and no cure for it but death?...

how can anyone 'get help' from having terminal cancer and facing who knows how long of having to be attached to tubes and machines and suffer pain you can't even imagine, knowing they'll die at the end, anyway?

 

I said there may be cases when suicide is appropriate. Read the whole post before commenting. Thanks.