which is the correct way?

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Cacian, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Arathald

    Arathald New Member

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    Actually, this isn't really an idiom. I've never heard this espression before today, yet with a little bit of context, I was able to understand it based on its literal meaning. The question makes perfect sense in that, interpreted literally, it has no answer. For an expression to be an idiom, it's meaning in colloquial usage needs to have basically no relation to its literal meaning. Here, it makes perfect sense with its literal meaning. Being a common rhetorical question doesn't make it an idiom -- it would make sense even if it wasn't a common expression.

    This isn't really over-analyzing, as this is exactly how I read the question before I realized it was an common expression.

    The answer to "How tall is an African elephant?" doesn't need to be "it depends", because using the indefinite article makes it a generalizaiton. "How tall is an African elephant?", while technically imprecise, would be a perfectly normal question for a native speaker to ask, and expect a real response to, for the reasons I mentioned above. Once again, the difference is that you can't generalize the length of a string, which is why this expression makes sense.
     
  2. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Maybe, but you couldn't vary it -- nobody who knows the idiom would say "What's the length of a piece of string" unless they wanted people to understand that they were deliberately playing with the original form.
    But according to that analysis one shouldn't be able to use it in response to "How tall is an African elephant?" As somebody who grew up with this expression as part of everyday speech, let me assure you that one can, just as one can answer with "It depends..." (on, for example, how old the elephant is and whether it is male or female).
     
  3. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    that's it.
    it is nonsensical.
    glad someone agrees.:p
     
  4. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    it's a sarcastic response to a nonsensical question... just as 'is the pope catholic?' or 'does a bear shit in the woods?' would be a response, if someone asks, 'would you like to be rich?' or 'is 30 degrees fahrenheit cold?'...
     
  5. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    It's not necessarily sarcastic in British usage, just non-committal.
     
  6. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    how about this one:

    complascent and hesitant.
    what is the difference between the two?
     
  7. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    No it ain't.


    It's an example of how some folk in the north of England (and in other places, perhaps) like to express themselves. Lively, colourful, cliched language :). It's important to remember that no language is owned by professors and experts. Language is the property of the people who choose to use it, and they may do with it as they see fit.

    Good thing too, otherwise I might still be saying:


    "Hast thou just cause to deem me a bore?"


    Just tell me why you think I'm boring.



    Edit:

    After a short think, I can say that this kind of response, in my experience, is used between friends, and with comic intent more than anything else. I have never been in a queue at the bank and heard such a response in reply to a question from the cashier :).
     
  8. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    I've heard/read the second one.

    Google suggests you might mean "complacent".
     
  9. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Apart from only one of them being spelled correctly? :p

    "Complacent" is a don't-care attitude. "Hesitant" is a do-care but cautious attitude. Either can lead to inaction.
     
  10. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    Very good!
     
  11. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    oh.
    just a question is google a He or SHE,both or an it?..imagine one never heard of google before..this would be a legitimate question right?!
    and about ,complacent, depends on how you look..the language belongs to the people and they might do with it as they wish.:p
    thanks for the correction!
     
  12. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I was sure it was the opposite..one is thought out carefully and hesitant is when asked and out of the blue, when you did not know.
    hesitant would be unsure but kind the last minute unsure...
     
  13. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    are you saying that to misspell words is ok?... it might be ok to you, but it's sure not going to be ok with agents, editors, or publishers, so if you want to be a professional writer, you'd better learn to do it as it should be done and not as you wish...

    in re complacent/hesitant, they're not even close to being opposites... the opposite of 'complacent' could be 'discontented' or 'dissatisfied'... and for 'hesitant' it could be 'decisive' or even 'rash'...
     
  14. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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  15. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    Ha! I forgot to answer....

    No, I'm not saying it's okay to misspell words ad lib. If the writing is in standard English, then the rules of standard English should be observed. My point is that the development of a language takes place from the ground up (people), and not from the top down (academics).
     
  16. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    Please note....

    Any links I give to external sites are there because I think the content might be of interest to members here, and not because I think the content is the absolute truth :).
     
  17. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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  18. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    wikpedia may be an ok place to start, but keep in mind that the content isn't vetted and comes from anyone who cares to submit some, thus isn't always reliable...
     
  19. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    But in this case it at least gives the impression that it's not as easy to pin down a "standard" English as some prescriptive pundits suggest, in which regard it is spot on!
     
  20. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    I'm a stickler for correct English. But what does "correct" mean?

    After some thought, I decided that, for me, "correct English" is the English I was taught at school. So in fact I'm copying and perpetuating the standard of my English teachers.

    But I could have had other teachers. Or been to school at a different time. My own opinions on what constitutes correct English might well be different in those circumstances.

    Thinking further, the teachers generally have to teach what is in the curriculum, and that comes down from the government.


    So people of different generations might never agree on what is "standard".


    Just make it up as you go........KIDDING!
     
  21. leafmould

    leafmould New Member

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    Accidental duplicate, sorry.
     
  22. cobaltblue

    cobaltblue New Member

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    It's not a sarcastic comment... as some previous posters have already answered 'How long is a piece of string?' pretty much means 'Who can say for sure.'
    another PP correctly pointed out that the word 'a' in the sentence is what makes it an unanswerable question.. no one is asking how long is that piece of string... any piece of string would be the length it is required to be.... 'How long is a piece of string?' is not a question anyone would ask, it's a response someone would give when asked a question which has an unknowable answer.
    For example.
    Person A: 'How many outfits is your daughter going to try on before we can leave the house?'
    Person B: 'How long is a piece of string?'

    Now obviously, once the daughter is ready to leave the house, the number of outfits CAN be counted.. so the answer will be known later... but at the time of asking the answer is unknowable.

    How long is a piece of string? is a commonly used phrase (in certain areas clearly) and so you can't change the wording of it just because you decide to and expect it still to be accepted as the same saying.
    If we all went around saying 'a bird in the hand is worth birds' or 'watching the pot never boils it' .. would anyone know what we meant?
     
  23. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    in fact and in other words, answering a question with a question is as good as any, is what we are getting down to it seems.
    what I am trying to say is that if we are going to now answera question witrh a question and not go with the traditional format which is to answer a question with a standard answer or even a yes or a no ,then anyhting goes after that surely .
    upsetting the balance is what it boils down to so we could say ask me a question and I will answer it with a question and be prepared to go for ''anyhting goes'' .
     
  24. art

    art Contributor Contributor

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    Not quite. It's the answering of a question with an unanswerable question.

    Consider:

    A- How long will it take you to do that, buddy?
    B - How long does a football match last?
    A - Ninety minutes.
    B - Aye.
     
  25. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    but isn't the usual anwer to your first question usually answers like this
    half an hour?
    an hour?

    rather then 90minutes?
     

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