White Characters Dominating Fantasy Worlds

Has that really happened, that someone has written a book with white, heterosexual dudes going fishing and gotten a lot of shit for it?

I don't think I've seen that...

 

Damn, literally laughed out loud at that!

(You're so funny!)

 

In a hypothetical case in which someone wants to force anti-diversity upon your work, I'll be with you to fight against that. I do see both "You must not have diversity!" and 'You must have diversity!" as equally worrying though.

 

You've missed my point.

OK, let me word it differently.

Is it all right if I write a story about white heterosexual American men going fishing in Mobile Bay? Would you have a problem with this story if I chose to do so? Would you think me a horrible person if I wanted to write this?

Can I write this?

 

Disney's Frozen got a lot of shit for not having non-whites and non-straights.

 

But you seem to be saying, "You must not encourage diversity."

 

Are writers just not allowed to write whatever the hell they want anymore?

Great, guess I'll just go ahead and scrap that story about the white, heterosexual, American men going fishing at Mobile Bay. Not like I was getting excited about it or anything...

 

And it was destroyed at the box office.

 

"You should neither encourage diversity nor anti-diversity in works that aren't your own."
Fix'd.

 

I must be racist, 'cause people (like @BayView and @ChickenFreak ) are missing my posts. C'mon! I didn't vote for Trump here, folks!!

Oh, who am I kidding...

 

Why is it apparently so difficult to understand the difference between, "Hey have you considered doing X?" and "You must do X!"

When someone says, "Have you considered eating more vegetables?" do you shout back, "Why are you trying to outlaw steak?!"

When someone says, "Walking for short trips can be good for your health," do you shout back, "Why are you trying to outlaw my car?!"

When someone says, "Cats are nice," do you shout back, "Why are you trying to outlaw hamsters?!"

 

I don't care what you write.

None of this is about individual writers.

Is that the part people are missing?

It's like the Bechdel test - it's not meant as a prescriptive judgement on any individual work, it's meant as a descriptive tool to make a point about the medium in general.

In general, there is not enough diversity in fiction.

This isn't a criticism of any individual work, it's just an observation. And from that observation we can start working toward ways to change the situation. It seems very unlikely, to me, that anyone will try to change the situation by attacking random authors who write about white heterosexual American fishermen.

ETA: Son-of-a-goddamn-bitch, @ChickenFreak! Let me be first JUST ONCE. Like, next time, sit on your claws. Go get a drink. Knit something. Give me a friggin' chance!

 

Have you considered eating more vegetables? If you don't, I'll start a controversy on social media!

 

Why?

Does that mean that I should never, ever, even a tiny bit, express a desire for what fictional works I'd like to see?

"I'd like to see a movie about the Green Arrow."
"Stop suppressing others' creativity!"
"I also like crime caper movies."
"Writers just need to be freeeeeee!"
"And I really enjoyed that movie about the chef. More like that would be good."
"STOP IT JUST STOP IT YOU'RE STRANGLING THE ENTIRE MOVIE INDUSTRY I'M MELTING I'M MELTING!"

Really?

 

If it doesn't fit the story, why shoehorn it in?

Look, none of my characters in any of my stories are in wheelchairs. Why? Because the plot doesn't demand a character to be in a wheelchair. Just like none of my characters are Muslims. The plot doesn't demand it! None of my characters, save for one, are from Europe. Why? Because, again, the plot doesn't demand it!

If the plot doesn't demand it, it doesn't happen. It's not how I create my stories.

 

Yup. It was about time for "shoehorn" to come up.

 

I think the bolded is exactly where people are getting tripped up.

Otherwise, yeah, you've got a very good point. We do have an assload of white dudes in fiction, don't we?

And no, @ChickenFreak will never sit on her claws to give you a chance. >:]

 

And who said it didn't fit the story? Who suggested shoehorning other than, well, you, right now?

It would be nice if you would stay in the debate, rather than randomly arguing against things that no one has said. Really, really nice.

 

Yes, ma'am! I think BayView made things a bit clearer now.

 

So all your plots DEMAND able-bodied, non-European, non-Muslim characters? They wouldn't work if you changed one of the characters to be Muslim, French, or in a wheelchair?

 

If ya wanna tell hollywood how they should make their movies, go right ahead and mail a list of suggestions to their marketing team. Keep in mind that their #1 priority is marketing to the largest demographic to make money.

 

Probably talking out of my ass, here, but...

Is it possible that this is part of a larger white-male phenomena? That Mars/Venus bullshit says that men are programmed (conditioned!) to be problem-solvers. And I think that white people (I'm one of them) are trained to think of ourselves as, yes, the centre of the universe, but also the saviours/leaders/fixers of everything.

So when someone points out a problem, are white males conditioned to believe that it's their responsibility to fix that problem, and/or resentful of thinking that they're being required to fix the problem?

Sometimes there are problems that are just problems, and it'd be great if some people could step up and start working toward a solution to the problem, but it's not always the white man's job to fix things. We know that. Pointing out that the status quo needs some work isn't the same as ordering you to change things yourselves. It might just be a sign that we're going to expect you to get out of the way of other people who are trying to change things.

 

You're switching positions. A few posts ago, your point seemed to be that it was Wrong to have opinions about what I'd like to read or see. Have you changed your position on that?

You're also assuming that maximum profits are made by making the cast as identical as possible to the viewer. That assumption would explain the complete box office failure of movies like Alien and Terminator. It would also explain the fact that no one has ever heard of Denzel Washington or Will Smith. Except...hmm.

 

Did you read the article @ChickenFreak linked to last page?

It was pretty short. You should read it, I think.

 

I have a confession to make: yeah, I've been altering my stories as my way of changing the status quo rather than letting my stories speak for themselves.

And so it's clear, I do have main protagonists who aren't white dudes.

@Tenderiser - ... Actually, my MC in my Colonial Mystery is French, and I do have a character in a wheelchair in one of my stories. I don't have a Muslim character, though. :/ Wait....waaaaaaaait... Oh yes! Yes, I do! His name is Omar Baitey and he's a professor as the Port Lisha University where Kevin McKinley goes to. He is a family friend of Kevin's and Kevin himself considers Omar a sort of father-figure.

And Kevin is Canadian-American.

ONE STATEMENT!!! I do have a character in the story with progeria, which is a condition that causes rapid aging in children.