White Characters Dominating Fantasy Worlds

I'm not the one who presented the amount of white-people in fantasy as being a problem. I've been waiting on the reasoning for this too. As of yet it's been a totally baseless assertion.

 

Are you being deliberately cryptic? Just in case it's not deliberate, I want to let you know that you are being cryptic, and in the event that you actually want to communicate on this issue, rather than throw snark, I'd suggest that you start to expand on (that is, type more of) your thoughts a little.

Why is the lack of nonwhites in fantasy (not the amount of white people in fantasy; see how you coyly restate the problem to something no one said?) a problem? That's been amply discussed in this thread, and since it's clear that you aren't willing to hear any of that, I see very little point on repeating what's already been well said.

But it certainly appears that you have some opinion on why fantasy is dominated by whites, one that you are declining to tell us. Your teasing little posts keep implying that, and then you back away. Do you or don't you have an opinion on that matter?

 

Sorry, not baseless. Only backed by opinion and feelings.

So here, since we're not dealing with actual arguments, I'll provide a counter-feeling.

I feel that there are enough minorities in fiction.

 

when i read a book, i create my own characters because my imagination knows nothing about human color...only human race/ mankind.
i think the movie industry has a root in this.

 

If there were few to zero characters of your own race, etc., can I assume that you would feel that there were nevertheless enough? So, if you're white male, no need for any whites or males?

 

The problem is with the fantasy genre. Just stop writing it.Then representation comes down to real world locations or our projections of those locations in the future.

 

Characters being male or female typically serves a purpose. Reproduction, biology, psychology, you know that already.

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Now to address your theoretical. If I belong to a minority that totals to 2% of the United States population, I would not expect there to be many of my minority in fiction.

Does including my minority benefit the story author x wanted to write? No? Oh well.

 

What if women tip to 51% of the population? (They are already more than a majority, aren't they?) You OK with men being pretty much entirely removed from fiction--except when they need to show up for a couple of minutes or pages to fertilize the eggs? Totally, totally cool with you?

 

So you're saying that a writer needs reasons to justify a story with some white characters and some non-white characters, but needs no reasons to justify writing a story with only white characters?

 

What, are they being removed from fiction by a totalitarian dictator named ChickenFreak?

 

What.

 

Asking for a reason to be applied in her lazy theoretical.

 

Maybe the same reason why women are being removed from fiction in the real world?

 

LOL. Right.

 

You're the one who said that people shouldn't need characters that are anything like them. So why do you care if they're gone? Why would I be a totalitarian dictator for doing something so totally innocuous and harmless?

I've talked about Orphan Black before. Orphan Black, as far as I can tell, does not pass the reverse Bechdel test.

It has great, well-drawn male characters, but those characters exist to serve the plot arcs of the female characters.

Art exists because of his relationship with Beth, and his later relationship with Sarah.

Felix exists because he's Sarah's brother. He's an honorary "sestra", which means that he's honored by being regarded as one of the sisters--by being treated as an honorary woman.

Paul exists to interact wtih Beth and Sarah and Rachel. Oh, and the woman that runs the prison camp.

Donny, Dr. Leeky, Paul, Victor, etc., etc., all exist to serve the women's plots, as supporters or antagonists. The rich guy whose name I forget exists because he fathered Sarah's child--a daughter.

There's really no good reason for any male character on Orphan Black to EVER talk to any other male character about anything but a woman. Heck, when Felix briefly broke off from Sarah's orbit, thus suggesting that he might get his own character arc, it was to...go find his biological sister.

All women all the time. Men are thoroughly secondary.

I assume that's totally, totally cool with you, not only for this one show, but as a precedent for all future fiction. Because if you didn't, wouldn't that make you self important?

 

So you'll be able to show that women appear in protagonist roles in proportion to their percentage of the population?

 

Because you used the word "removed" in your theoretical. I don't care, because it wouldn't happen.

Sounds like a really shitty story.

 

That's not what Simpson said. But is that the test we're going to be using from now on, instead of arbitrary "I feel as ifs"?

Is it in proportion to their population percentage?

 

Ah! Orphan Black DOES pass the reverse Bechdel test. There's the scene where Scott is playing some sort of roleplaying game in the lab with several other guys. It's only a minute or two, and then the woman who runs the lab (Cosima) comes in, makes sure that Scott's primary task for her is in progress, and then sits down and totally dominates the game. But that minute or two probably counts.

 

Nah man, you got it backwards.

This needs evidence. All Foxxx was doing was expressing skepticism. Ya'll better read up on some basic debate skills before something like this goes down again. Or not, I don't care. It's creative material for me.

 

Why?

So, if instead of me saying "Laurus is a serial killer," I said "How can we be sure that Laurus isn't a serial killer," would you assume that I was arguing in good faith?

 

How on earth could that be? Gender doesn't matter even a little tiny bit, right? Why would we need men?

Are you having a bit of an attack of self importance here?

 

I certainly see the monochromatic casts of most fiction, written or otherwise, as being troublesome. Speaking as a white man, there are plenty of stories featuring a white male hero saving the day, while non-white people tend to be regulated to the side-lines. This does seem far more egregious in fantasy, and it often comes with the excuse of it not being realistic to have diversity in fantasy settings. And this does speak to a very white-centric viewpoint it seems that people have on the Internet, that all stories have to be about a white dude or else the audience won't be able to relate to them. I've seen this bandied about on Twitter, Reddit, NeoGaf, and a few other places, and to me it's ridiculous. We live in a very diverse world, and when creating a world entirely from your own imagination you have no reason to default to white males for the main character.

And just to avoid this conversation, no I am not proposing removing white men as main characters. I merely would like to see more diversity in fiction and the stories that can be brought about from that.

 

Bad characters and plot writing.