Why are fantasies always stuck in the middle ages?

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Sean2112bd, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Have you read Neil Gaiman's "American Gods"?
     
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  2. Ever heard of Harry Potter?
     
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  3. Ellipse

    Ellipse Contributor Contributor

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    This is an excellent book. You must read it. :D
     
  4. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Agreed, one of my favourites. My point being that "a dark elf being a car salesman" is nothing when you have a god working as a taxi-driver. I did wonder whether it really fitted within the fantasy genre, but then thought "god working as a taxi driver"...
     
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  5. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    Did you ever watch God, The Devil and Bob ? It was wonderful.

    My 'elves' and 'ogres' use mobile phones, have laptops etc My sort of ogre is my version of Q from James Bond. I hope people will want to read it cos I am writing it lol
     
  6. afrodite7

    afrodite7 New Member

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    -most people think middle ages when they think fantasy .i pesonaly (like many ,many,many other people)can't stand the middle ages when people didn't wash up,elves suck and everybody was white and sexism was the in thing.

    my novel equals=elves,vamps,witches and other creatures on the internet+space travel+virtual reality+laser guns an swords,machine guns,alchemy, magic+cell phones+swords+glow in the dark parties...

    yeah,i prefer my fantasy like that
     
  7. Melzaar the Almighty

    Melzaar the Almighty Contributor Contributor

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    Er, you do know other countries existed at this time? :p I can't name anything due to sucktastic memory, but I'm vaguely-to-quite certain I've read or heard of fantasies set in medieval-ish China and India.
     
  8. Phil Waisome

    Phil Waisome New Member

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    Who said that that fantasy has to be set in a medievalesque European enviroment? There are plenty of fantasy novels set in ancient, classical, modern (urban fantasy) times. There's also Science Fantasy novels and other media (He-Man being one example). Fantasy novels based upon Asian, African and Pre-Columbian American cultures. Fantasy doesn't really have many limits and that why I love it.

    I agree with most of what you said especially the bolded part. Hand to hand combat just hits something primal within all human beings. That's why we watch and admire Boxers, Wrestlers, MMA fighters, Uther martial arts contests, Roman Gladiators. No amount of advance projectile weapons and technology is going to capture our attention more than Hand to hand fighting.

    I've just finished a fantasy novel about an African merchant and warrior that has his homebase in the Swahili city states in the 15th century!
     
  9. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's not, but the book covers that scream medieval high fantasy are easy to spot on the shelf. Kinda like the military/combat/battle Science Fiction novels are easily spotted from across the store, but it doesn't mean they dominate the genre, just that they're easy to spot. Look into Clive Barker for well written, completely non-medieval fantasy. Some good shit. ;)
     
  10. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But...

    But...

    That's fantasy.

    It's not happy butterflies and fairy-wings fantasy, but it's fantasy.
     
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  11. MilesTro

    MilesTro Senior Member

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    Because there are many lazy writers who only think about familiar settings they read from fairy tails and LOTRS.
     
  12. Robert Klein II

    Robert Klein II Member

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    I actually prefer medievalish settings because it gives me more room to do as I please. It also lets me better detail my world.

    That said there are some machines in it. (Very meh pistols. Watches. Pretty much a ton of not advanced machines)
     
  13. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    You guys do know that the most popular fantasy story of all doesn't even take place in this galaxy? But in one far, far away.

    (Star Wars. Star Wars is fucking fantasy.)
     
  14. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    It's kinda sci fi AND fantasy
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, exactly. Just because it takes place with space ships doesn't make it sci-fi. There is no attempt made to link it to any kind of science. No mention of earth or anything like that. It's just fantasy. Everything is made up, and is not intended to show any connection with real life, or the consequences of our actions, or anything else. It's an entirely made-up world. No planets we recognise, etc. I'd say it's pure fantasy, but there is always the chance people will label it 'sci-fi' because of the space ships.
     
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  16. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not sure I agree with this. It's a slippery slope if we hold sci fi to this sort of criterion. After all, maybe we should just say it's not science fiction unless it's written by a scientist-scratch that- a team of world renowned scientists. Just because Joe Schmo writes a story about space ships, based on a little Wikipedia reading he did one morning, doesn't make his story any more Sci Fi than Star Wars. Neither fictional universe is credible. The fact that Star Wars has planets, takes place in a different galaxy in a different time period, puts it in some sort of perspective to our world. It's far away and long ago, but still in our reality. Additionally, Star Wars uses technology, that again, is no more or less credible than most of the stuff you see in sci fi. It also has aliens, that are no more or less credible than most of the aliens you see in other sci fis. Is it a HARD sci fi? Absolutely not. Is it a traditional sci fi, in the sense that it tries to explore the human condition? Absolutely not. Does it take place in another part of our Universe and utilize make believe but feasible technology, and explore other life forms based on other planetary habitats? Yes. Therefore, it is a sci fi. I do agree it has some fantasy elements as well.
     
  17. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    It's not, only the mostly bad stuff is with two notable exceptions that keep this idea alive.
     
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Well, obviously we don't entirely agree on this. I would like to take you up on one particular point you made. The one about Star Wars having 'some perspective to our world.' Let me quote you from Page 2 of my edition of Tolkien's The Hobbit, which I think you'll probably agree is fantasy, not sci-fi?

    "The mother of our particular hobbit - what is a hobbit? I suppose hobbits need some description nowadays, since they have become rare and shy of the Big People, as they call us. They are (or were) a little people, about half our height, and smaller than the bearded Dwarves. There is little or no magic about them, except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like elephants..." and etc.

    I think this 'linkage to our world' is right up there in fantasy lingo with: "Once upon a time in a galaxy far far away..."

    In neither instance is there any attempt to link the story with our real world IN SCIENTIFIC TERMS. Contrast this with a show like Firefly ...which is also pretty much fantasy. BUT that story actually does link to Earth, and we are in no doubt it's a long time in the future from now, and that the people in it come from Earth, still speak English and Chinese, etc, the new planets have been 'terraformed,' etc. So while the story is cowboys in space and some of the technology is way out there, it is a form of sci-fi. Not hard sci fi, but I'm happy to consider it sci-fi based.

    Star Wars? I love it. In fact it's my favourite movie of all time, and the only one I've seen at the cinema 7 times. But sci-fi? I don't think so...

    Other people, including yourself, don't agree. They are convinced by the fact that it happens 'Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away' that it's sci-fi. (Which in my mind is right up there with 'Once upon a time, long ago and far away'—a common fairy tale opening phrase.) Fair enough. But this thread is entitled:Why are fantasies always stuck in the middle ages? I maintain that Star Wars is a great example of how fantasy doesn't need to be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
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  19. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Oh my god......THE HOBBIT IS REALLY SCI FI??????!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
     
  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    By your definition... maybe! :)
     
  21. Robert Klein II

    Robert Klein II Member

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    Here's something people should think of - What about fantasies that take place during modern times but on a made up planet?
     
  22. C.E Dimond

    C.E Dimond New Member

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    I guess this all depends on what people are defining their views of fantasy because I agree there are more modern versions of fantasy out there though I find the majority of authors approach it in a secretive sense so that in some instances at least, it seems more realistic. I mean, for example in The Mortal Instruments, there's all manner of creatures and species living in modern day New York City but of course humans can't see them, they have their own secret places. That makes sense right? There could very well be a whole world under our noses we just have no idea! this is sort of intriguing, much like in Harry Potter Platform 9 3/4 is hidden in plain sight. Swords/Magic staffs/Wands vs Gun fire is a bit romanticised I think, you can write an epic heroic fight scene of clashing swords or magic versus the hero picking up a gun and boom Voldemort's dead, Harry Potter is a normal kid, no story to speak of. It would be neat to have a story where the elves are walking down Park avenue hailing a cab, but for me at least, that would sort of lose some of the magic and romantic view of these cool fantasy worlds. When a fantasy world IS thrown into a modern day setting the fantasy type creatures tend to be human, in appearance at least, which allows again, to hide in plain sight.
     
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  23. Robert Klein II

    Robert Klein II Member

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    Can you just imagine a dwarf being the manager of a bank. "We're missing a penny in finances! Find me that damn penny!"
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'd say that AWrinkle In Time fits that description.
     
  25. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    Firefly is a western. Just because it takes place in space, has aliens, and deals with technology does not make it science fiction.

    Science fiction is less a genre, and more an ideal. That human society will be influenced by technology, and that these influences can be predicted. Real sci-fi poses a concept (or several) and then extrapolates the effects of the concept across the scope of humanity. It asks "what if" and then goes as far as it can to give a realistic answer to the question.

    Star wars has none of this. The closest it comes to proposing a concept is the hyper drive, and it's caveat, the need to take time to program in a course. But this extrapolation appears once, early on, and never appears to affect the plot ever again.
     
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