Internet arguments are like road rage. You say things to people you would never say if you were talking to them face to face. Ninety percent of your manners and decorum go out the window. That's one of the problems - the lack of place. We think we're sitting here in our underwear at our computers in the privacy of our own homes, and therefore we get to scream whatever the hell we want. Really, we're in a forum - a virtual space that has other people in it even if we can't see them. We should behave here the way we'd behave if we were members of a writer's group in someone's living room. We don't - we're insulated from each other by keyboards and screens and wifi and technology. We feel we have the right to scream. Our parents taught us face-to-face manners, but they never taught us this.
This thread started out great in my opinion, friendly toned, joking and people explaining themselves without insulting others and claim to be superior thinkers with a more scientific mind or with better thinking processes. People presented their side but they where still respecting eachother, it never went personal. Now this thread is just one of those rude ones, again. Where people stomp on eachother to look good and be correct.
You do what you can for peace, but you are not responsible for others. Sometimes, all you can do is try your best. You can't fix everything, so don't blame yourself @slamdunk.
@JJ_Maxx I don't share either your religious, or political viewpoint, but I have seen with my own two eyes, what intolerance, and the inability to forgive can do. I appreciate that you are trying, and that you have apologised for the part you feel you played. One can harp on about all manner of injustices but, in my opinion, much can be achieved by taking a good hard look in the mirror.
On a random note, I think I got into a pretty heated debate with @JJ_Maxx on what, my third day here? And then a couple more times after that? We don't skip 'round holding hands now, but I don't consider him my enemy. I may disagree with a lot some of the things he says, but I also disagree with a lot some of what Ginger says and some of what everyone says to a degree.
I don't mean to come off crass, but um... homo sapiens, baby. A good friend just pointed out to me that as a species we don't exactly have a track record that would lead one to expect a very different result.
This is true with everyone in our lives, to a degree. I don't agree with everything my wife believes. (She feels that Christopher Eccleston is a better Doctor than David Tennant. Whatever!) No but seriously most of our lives are spent learning how to live in harmony with those around us. This doesn't mean we all have to be robots and hold the same beliefs, but it mean we need to fully understand that we are all thinking, speaking, feeling beings. We all love and cry, laugh and suffer loss equally.
I think that's the most touching thing you've ever said at this forum. EDIT: But also read what @thirdwind says and take that to heart.
There are some issues, however, that I feel we must all agree on. I firmly believe that hatred towards any group of people is wrong, and if someone says otherwise, I'm never going to stop arguing about it.
Excellent thread @slamdunk, and a good question. I think there's nothing more banal than arguing on the internet with some person, or a troll, or whoever, in order to prove our point. Firstly, there are no consequences. Being anonymous means any of us can say whatever we want, the personal cost of any backlash is minimal. Some people use that fact to behave like assholes, other don't, it's a matter of choice. So to be arguing 'till we are blue in the face with someone who is likely arguing for attention, or loving seeing others upset or just being stupid, is an epic waste of time. On the other hand, sometimes we might just feel like arguing with someone, letting off steam etc. That, to me, is a justifiable reason to argue. But one would be on a fools errand trying to convince 'the internet' of their personal beliefs and attitudes. State your point and move on. The only thing that isn't cool is when people latch on and start having personal vendettas against those who disagree with them. Whoever bothers me like that is going to get a piece of my mind and it ain't gonna be pretty. Because I'm here to relax, not hide so I don't get splashed in a shit throwing competition.
Absolutely. Hatred has caused a lot of problems in the world but as far as I know hasn't solved any. "No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite." - Nelson Mandela
Steady on there JJ - You're starting to sound human I would like to see someone start a thread on Nelson Mandella - one where no-one throws their toys out of the pram, there's enough dummy/pacifier/soother spitting going on around here
Ahaha. That sounds interesting. Maybe you should. Her Highness (being myself obv.) would approve lol.
Eek! Don't tell anyone! I did decide to change my avatar just to 'turn the page', so to speak. Out with the old in with the new! I don't know as much about his life as I should, thats a fact.
Funny how some many posts here have so many nice things to say about arguing respectfully, when I can think of at least ten threads in the past few months that ended in insults, accusations, deleted posts, and ultimately a lock down by one of the mods. This is sort of like those Meyers Briggs personalities, where each one promises some special set of virtue, yet in the real world, we see trash on the streets, shopping carts left in the lots, riots on black Friday, and people hanging out on FB (or WF) during their 9-5 jobs.
I've seen this sort of thing far too many times. I guess I'm just cynical. I need to find some kind of spectator enjoyment in it, otherwise I'd lose all hope.
I know how you feel. But my gut tells me I should let myself get upset by it. Truly, I didn't think you were being blasé, or taking enjoyment from it. Apologies if I gave you that impression.
I was a mod for just over a year. During this time, and in the service of fairness, I had to build an immunity against this feeling of frustration when reading threads like this. I get it, believe me.
I understand. It's not something I could ever do, I think. I find it very hard to contol my emotions, especially when I need to, and I respect you for having done so.
To argue with success is to convince. We don't want to argue, we try to convince people. But it still requires arguments.
Everyone here is a person. We all contain the ability to change, whether for better or for worse. There is always an internal struggle against selfish desires, pride and arrogance. For all the people who leave trash on the streets, there will be people who will pick it up voluntarily. Also, those people who leave the trash may also be the people who pick up the trash in the future. Humans are not static creatures and it's up to all of us to seek out and encourage the good in people.
Some faith in humanity restored. (To be honest, I always had faith in humanity, but whatevs.) And I note your change of location, JJ.
I would say that I have arguments (or discussions) because it benefits me. Listening to other people's beliefs and opinions, while having them hear mine (and often critique or rip it apart) helps either solidify my own or helps awaken me to broader spectrums. When I first left Christianity, I was an angry, ANGRY non-believer. I was one of those a-holes who go around the internet forums, looking for a religious argument. I did it because they were angry Christians and I needed support in losing my faith and to feel that I was right for no longer believing. Having those heated arguments helped me to 1.) Voice my anger constructively and 2.) Look at faith from a different angle. I learned a lot that I didn't previously know, and I was definitely schooled a time or two. So, while you think that the argument maybe useless and non-constructive, its very possible that its extremely constructive... but only if you allow it to be. I even learned a lot from the people who can only curse, scream and yell. Anything that forces me to think, I consider to be time worthy.
