Yep. But then I love Dean Koontz, who just as many people dislike. And yeah I see the flaws in his writing, but something draws me in anyway. As a writer it's comforting - we don't have to be perfect. But it is disconcerting sometimes, because it's so clear that how successful we are is largely out of our hands. Honing the craft is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
I'm hit or miss with Koontz. I liked Phantoms, Whispers, and Watchers. And one I read about a guy with skin sensitive to sunlight (maybe it was one of those). And I liked the first Odd Thomas but haven't read the rest. A couple others of his I picked up and couldn't get into. I also find Richard Laymon hit or miss. I like Clive Barker, Ramsey Campbell, James Herbert, and a few others.
Honing the craft may be insignificant, but what if there's some way to figure out the magic? I mean, what the hell DID make Twilight so damn successful?!? Why do so many people love Harry Potter? I don't think it's a good idea to chase trends or try to imitate someone else's success, but I'm not sure it's completely impossible to figure out what the magic is. (I haven't done it yet, but that doesn't mean it's impossible...!)
See I saw huge flaws in Phantoms even as a non writer... Would elaborate more if I wasn't on phone. Life Expectancy is a good one. Edit: Bay, in my view it's largely zeitgeist or something like it. A form of not-quite-random luck. But just a guess.
I don't think it is impossible, either, and I have some ideas about it, but none of them conclusive. There were stories like Twilight and Potter before Meyer and Rowling, some arguably better written, that just didn't take off.
I read that in high school. Probably would have missed a lot in terms of flaws, I just remember liking it
Books, movies, and music are at their most popular in society when everyone is looking for an escape. Starwars is huge right? Think it would be even half as big if it wasn't set in a time where the U.S. was in Vietnam, and gas was scarce? Much like that, Harry Potter and Twilight have become popular in a time where the current generation has to sell their future for a degree, few potential jobs in their future, (the U.S. at least) had two concurrent wars, and countries are in huge amounts of debt left over by the last generation. Now what do these books sell? You're special, you only didn't know it, and everything works out! HP had a shit life, but turns out he's the most specialist person ever! (female twilight characters name) had sort of a shit high school life, only now two awesomely cute boys totes love her, and shes super special!
Yes. But there are a bunch of books just like that, many of which predate Potter and Twilight, and didn't become so successful. It wasn't just those ideas, it was how they were implemented, probably some good timing, etc.
Exactly. The brand recognition becomes more obvious but it doesn't mean that the product is better. And as a side note, last weekend I drove 60 miles to get a Double x 2. Totally worth it.
Agreed. If I'm not mistaken, didn't Neil Gaiman have a comic book graphic novel called Books of Magic that was about a boy with magical powers that preceded Harry Potter by almost a decade? Meyer simply took Anne Rice and her high school diary and tossed them together. My point is that their work was not entirely original in concept, but how it was packaged.
But it's not about "concept", it's about execution. Hash browns, home fries, french fries of all sizes and shapes, and all sorts of other dishes are variations on the concept of potatoes plus fat plus heat. That doesn't make them the same thing.
I agree with @ChickenFreak. From agents to editors to everyone else at a publisher who had to be involved in taking on a work and forking over a large advance, to the readers buying millions of copies, the idea that it was something about the execution of these books makes far and away the most sense. All of the other arguments could be applied to turn any book into a cultural phenomenon if it were that easy, and clearly it isn't that easy.
And even within the categories, there are lots of different kinds of fries, hash browns, etc. Different seasonings, etc. This doesn't really add anything to the analogy - I just really like potatoes plus fat plus heat.
Seven things she did right - Packaging - gender neutral black allowed anyone to pick it up. It didn't scream girlie or YA. Vampires - Buffy the Vampire slayer fans were still mourning the loss of the show leaving the area open for a replacement Epic - she went epic. Epic's have an added awe about them. Trend - she tapped into what was going on in film and TV - gangs, groups, sci-fi, special effects. Think Fantastic Four etc. Theme - love - doomed tragic love - seriously this trend never gets old with kids or adults. Simplicity - she kept it simple - Bella wanted Edward ... she got Edward. A Romeo and Juliet with vampires and werewolves. She picked good names - Bella, Edward & Jacob -- simple classic fresh - harkening fairy tales and classic literature.
I think you can add one more thing to that list @Tenderiser, the era of social media. Word of mouth is golden.
I was just reading something somewhere else that crystalized an idea for me--the idea of "writers" vs "storytellers". I don't think most (any?) authors are purely one or the other, but I think there are definitely people who fall at the more extreme ends of the spectrum. There are some Writers who are so in love with their words (and so damn good with their words) that the story is secondary at best and sometimes fades away almost entirely. And there are some Storytellers who don't really seem to be paying much attention to the words or writing but who are telling a story that a lot of readers really enjoy. I think authors like Meyer are Storytellers with very little focus on Writing. And a lot of aspiring authors are spending most of their time working through the Writing skills and rules and ideas and seem to think that the Storytelling part is innate or will just fall into place. So we tend to be confused/frustrated by a Storyteller who has a lot of success. From what I've read of Rowling and King, I'd say they're both more than competent at the Writing part, but their real strengths, I'd say, come as Storytellers. As authors, I think it's good for us to remember the importance of Storytelling - a lot of readers don't care that much about how the sausage is made, but they want it to be meaty and well-spiced.
I definitely get that with Koontz - I love his stories so much I can overlook the technical issues. King? I think he's an awful storyteller and that's why I don't understand his success. All subjective innit.
Wow. I've only read a little Koontz but couldn't get into it. But King? The Stand? That was a hell of a tale...
The interesting thing for me, reading through this thread, is that Meyer and Rowling weren't apparently following popular trends when they wrote their books (good, bad or indifferent.) They started the trends, and to this day, remain the most successful authors within their respective 'trends.' (Teenage vampire love story, boy wizard learning his craft at boarding school and defeating major evil villain, etc.) So...somebody apparently took a chance on acquiring, selling and promoting a book that wasn't just like the last one they sold? Hmmm....
It's almost like the world of publishing isn't as narrow and hopeless as you think it is! (And I'm pretty sure they both had agents for their first deals... Jodi Reamer for Meyer and Christopher Little for Rowling)
I tried to read The Stand and got only about 300 pages into it (unabridged version). It bored the eyeballs out of my skull. Insipid, dull, and painful to read.
Well I wouldn't go THAT far . However is interesting to note that the 'big' authors we talk about (regardless of quality of writing, which could be debated forever) usually have forged a niche of their own, not followed somebody else. So trying to become the next Stephanie Meyer or JK Rowling probably isn't the path to the greatest success. You might sell some books on the coattails of these, to people who enjoyed those books and want something similar, but you'll never BE them. Better to be yourself and write the original story in your head that you would love to read. Somebody else will probably love it too.
One of my favourite stories ever. Not my favourite writing, although it was certainly serviceable, but the story itself. Loved it.
