Why "said" should remain dead.

Thank you

By the way, I like using beats (thank you for telling me what that is). It is a personal choice of style.

 

A beat on every line of dialog is going to really slow the pace down yeah?

It's a bit like said and other attributions: use them purposefully, rather than exclusively.

 

Yes, it will slow it down. Beats are a good way to control the flow of dialogue. If I want to slow things down a bit, I use more of them. If I want the dialogue to move faster I'll leave out tags when I can or else just use 'said' when one is needed.

 

Of course, once you establish who the characters are and what their motivations are in a scene, you don't even need beats. Assume a room has only a man and his sons. A monster appears. If a character says,

the reader has enough context to know the dad is talking. I guess this is an implicit beat, but it slows nothing down. I feel it makes for a higher pitch then the following.

 

@Steerpike and @Justin Rocket - Steerpike's 'beats' are what I meant when I mentioned 'action breaks' earlier in this thread. I didn't know they were called 'beats.' But whatever you call them, they are (in my opinion) one of the best kinds of speech tags you can employ. They not only make it easy to keep track of the speakers, but the give you that all-important visual as well. Can you imagine that excerpt without these 'beats?'

"Come on. They're going to start without us."
"Hold, on, let me finish! Okay, let's go."

Even if you added in the neutral 'said,' it wouldn't improve things much:

"Come on. They're going to start without us." said the boy.
"Hold, on, let me finish!" his older sister said. "Okay, let's go."

Of course you could make a real arse of the lines as well:

"Come on. They're going to start without us," the boy urged.
"Hold, on, let me finish!" his older sister exclaimed. "Okay, let's go," she finally agreed.

While all of these dialogue choices are 'clear' (with the possible exception of the first one, if we don't know who the speakers are already), without action beats there are no visuals to bring the scene to life. Action beats can bring a story to life, and also solve the problem of dialogue attribution. Just one caveat though: make sure you group the speaker AND the speaker's action together in the same paragraph. There are a few instances where this can be changed, but one of the worst mistakes is to put the speaker in the same paragraph as the other person's action. That can turn into a confusion-fest, as illustrated below:

"Come on, they're gonna start without us!"

The boy tugged incessantly on his older sister's arm."Hold on, let me finish!"

She wiped her fingers with a paper towel trying to remove the glitter from the project she was working on.

He shifted his weight from foot to foot. Anxious, he looked to her like he was trying not to pee."Okay."

She rose to her feet, laughing, and tossed the dirty towel into the waste bin. "Let's go."

 

Don't you mean

 

I've already made a post that you seem to have objected to, and I may end up doing the same here. But with all the respect in the world I would say that if the absence of 'colourful' dialogue tags means you struggle to get the feel for characters' moods and intentions, then you're either reading very badly written novels, or there's some other, underlying problem somewhere.

If using 'said' makes it difficult to follow dialogue, why do you think it's the most commonly used tag?

I'm also struggling to imagine how you find anything to read, as 99% of novels use the 'said' dialogue tag more than any other.

Having said all that, no one is suggesting other tags shouldn't be used. Take your example about characters lying. If a character lies during dialogue, and the reader is not privy to this up until that point, then by all means use, John looked her right in the eye. "No, I'm not seeing anyone else," he lied.

Even with that example, there are still countless ways to tell the reader his line is a lie.

 

Well of course that's what I mean! (You are also a brat! )

 

I kinda skipped from page 1 to 5, so I have yet to see if anyone shares in this opinion of mine.

Uh, moderation? C'mon people, honestly, if a book just goes said said said said said said said said said said without any variation or change-up in the mix, I'm going to throw that thing out a window. You don't always have to even say "said" or "growled". You could just start a new line and slap down what the character says

"The dog is blue"

Like that. Of course, then you have to make sure your readers know who's talking, but that isn't too hard to follow if you don't muss the dialogue. But honestly, both said and the fancier adjectives should be used in moderation and at right times. Dialogue too plain? Make the said fancy. Dialogue speak for itself? Leave it be, or don't even say said. Just write what, I dunno, Rokar says and then tell how he shifted in his seat, or adjusted the whacking big battle axe strapped to his back.

Just my five cents. Or is it four cents? I dunno, you get what I mean.

 

And? What is so significant about it being a fundamental basic?

 

Nobody has argued for "x said" on every line of dialogue. We've all pretty much said don't use a tag when you don't need one but if you do, make it said (or asked) unless there's a really good reason not to - which there rarely is.

 

No, make the dialogue more interesting.

Give me, "This is the craziest idea I ever heard!" he said, red-faced, arms flailing about like a mad man.

Than, "This is the craziest idea I ever heard!" he exclaimed,

any day.

 

My take on the subject is pretty much to use 'said' as the default tag, but when appropriate, I will use an action verb or a more colorful variation of 'said'. It's possible that most of the time I use beats to describe action or the manner someone says their line. In fact, my weakness is to overuse beats, which can really bog down dialogue. So, when editing, I have to keep an eye on them.

'Said' is a fairly "invisible" tag, so I don't fret too much about repeating it. If it appears a few times on a few consequent pages, it most likely won't be noticeable or jarring. Tags like 'whispered' and 'shouted' I use a bit more sparingly; if there's no other way to show that's how character says their line or it's particularly important for me to mention the manner/level of volume, I will use them.

'Exclaimed' I use quite rarely nowadays 'cause it's easy to show an exclamation. The same goes for 'insist'; it can be redundant 'cause it's easy to show someone repeat their lines, although I might use it if I wanted to emphasize my character's stubborness:

"I'm serious," she insisted. "We should try to sell it."
"That's the craziest idea I ever heard!"
"Your face is the-- Ugh, whatever." She rolled her eyes, and somehow I knew I'd be getting the silent treatment for the remainder of the night.

The more you read, the more you'll learn about the usage of tags and what works for you as a reader. Add to that editors' tips and recommendations that can be found in abundance all over the internet, and you're good to go. Some people prefer dialogue without any tags and hardly any beats (typical in Andrzej Sapkowski's Witcher books -- and it works!), some prefer more clarity and/or "breaks" in between the lines.

I don't think 'said' should remain dead. That sounds really limiting, and I don't believe in absolute no-nos when it comes to creative writing.

 

Or just

 

I haven't realized how to quote yet, so bear with me.

Selbbin, a question was raised, and I answered to the best of my knowledge. That's all there was to it. And since I had no possible way of knowing much the questioner knew, I gave as much knowledge that came to mind. There was no need to jump down my throat for it.

OurJud, think of every conversation you've every had. Were they all interesting? Hell no. Many of our everyday conversations are limp and dead. I don't know about you, but I prize realism even though I write high fantasy. Most of my characters have boring conversations that I don't linger on too long. In these cases it helps to throw on a few adjectives (but not ones that clearly are over the top) to flavor the tone better.

And regardless how good the dialogue is, it's still never well to go to said all the damn time. It's unimaginative not to variate. I'm not saying you should be all exotic with how you say said. I am merely proposing moderation between plain said, adjectives, and not saying it at all.

 

Characters who never poop or pee are unrealistic. Do you write about your characters' bodily functions?

Do you use colorful descriptions and a variety of verbs to make it seem less dull when a character poops?

 

I don't see any reason to include boring conversations unless you want the reader to stop reading. No part of the book should be boring. If you have conversations that are boring, you're better off cutting them.

 

At the foot of each post you'll see a blue 'Quote' link. Hit that and then edit the quote if necessary, making sure you leave anything between [square brackets intact]. Type your own post on the line after [ / QUOTE ]

 

Or just hit the Reply link.

 

DOH!!

Yes, it's the reply button, not link.

 

I have to disagree, when you avoid using the word 'said' it appears as though you are trying too hard. You end up with this long and convoluted list of descriptive tags which just aren't necessary.