Would you choose to self-pub over trad pub?

Oh, good, the OP was an invitation to re-open a old argument, not a genuine request for opinions. Fantastic. This will be my last post in this thread. That said:

There are definitely self-publishing success stories. They're fantastic, and I'm happy for the authors involved. That said, OP, your example of the self-published author selling more than 15K copies over 3 years includes in the same post the acknowledgement that trade publishers wouldn't be too impressed by those numbers. So you know that trade published books tend to sell in larger numbers than the best example you can find of a self-published book doing well. So what argument are you making, exactly?

My personal experience from having done both is that for a first-time book, it's very, very difficult to get attention for self-published books. The books I've self-published are the same quality as the books I publish through a publisher, and they don't sell nearly as well even in my home genre where I have a name. They hardly sell at all when it's a different genre where I don't have a name. So there's more to this than just quality.

It's also important to distinguish between different levels of trade publishing. Big Five means advances and bookstore placement, both of which are significant benefits. Smaller publishers are less likely to have these benefits, but more likely to have favourable contract terms. Then there are tiny publishers that, yes, are probably actually worse than self-publishing.

 

Well thanks for stopping by and grats on being published. I'm done too. This has helped with material and a frame of reference. So I do thank you for the opinions.

 

Mmm. I was sceptical that this wasn't a real question because of the unbelievable situation presented, but it's still annoying.

 

No, they wouldn't. Because no one would know that those books are any good. (That's ignoring your apparent belief that professional editors, layout artists, cover artists, etc., accomplish exactly zero and that publishers are paying them for no reason, because...publishers are philanthropists?)

A good book doesn't have a distress beacon that allows it to blink "Buy me! Buy me!" from within the sea of slush.

And I don't buy the "marketing budget" argument. Even if the marketing budget aimed specifically at a given single title is limited, the PUBLISHER will market for themselves--again, they're not a charity. They didn't spend thousands of dollars on editing/layout/cover, etc. just for quiet entertainment for themselves. They will market their name, they will list their books, and that gives the book respectability.

Please cite the studies that have this exact conclusion. And, no, they wouldn't take a bad book, and therefore the author wouldn't be deluded into believing that he has a masterpiece and throwing it away by prematurely publishing it. He might keep on working on the book until it's good and worthy of being accepted by a publisher, whose editors would make it even better.

Next you tell the story story of a single author that had a moderate success in self-publication. Yes, a few people succeed.

And a lot of self-published authors delude themselves into believing that their cover and first pages are good. That's true in a very tiny percentage of cases. If they had a publisher, then those things would be good--or they would not have a publisher and they'd know that they should keep on working on the book.

I don't worry about the people who self-publish bad books that will always be bad books. It's a better time-wasting hobby than some others, and might waste less money.

I don't worry about the people who have a book of a type that is likely not traditionally publishable, for whatever reason--size, nature, size of audience--and who make a clear-eyed decision that they're going to self-publish the book, knowing that the odds are severely against success, but preferring publication at a probable financial loss to never being published.

I do worry about the people who self-publish what could have become a perfectly publishable book, thus throwing away their efforts, because they believe that an entire industry of professionals has absolutely nothing to offer them.

 

Ah. So you were just here to bark at the mailman. OK, then.

 

I was indulging in a morning orgy of self pity because my short little book had sold only twelve copies the first month, then I got my first review from a stranger, a beautiful one, and your comment indicates I ain't off to a bad start! And my ranking moved up 1.8M to 500,000. The sun just came out!

 

That's a brilliant start!

 

Got good review from a self-styled non-religious person this morning. It's more historical than preachy

Oh, yes. I sold eight copies at my first impromptu book signing at the writer's group.

The E&D cover draft comes in tomorrow. depending on how much more work I need on it, I may go with the one I have, because I will be attend the Washington APT on Feb 8, and intend to have copies. I can always change it later. Attached, comments anyone?

 

Man, you must have done some hellacious research for that novel.

 

Did you get a graphic designer to do that, Lew?

I don't think the composition, fonts, colours, or pictures work. In fact the only thing I'd keep is your headshot.

The cover is your single greatest marketing tool: I'd really recommend paying a good graphic designer, with experience in book covers, if you can. I know you're not in this for the money, which is why I mention it.

 

I agree with @Tenderiser; that cover needs many changes. IMO you'd be better off with a simple "prerelease" sort of cover--just the author and title in a very plain font on a solid color--than the sample cover. Then you could seek out a graphic designer for the final cover.

Edited to add: My "prerelease" idea isn't based on any market experienced; it's just what I'd be more likely to pick up to page through. I wouldn't pick up a book with the sample cover.

 

I have a designer on contract, her draft is due tomorrow. Thanks for your comments, will take them under advisement.

 

@Lew - speaking as somebody who has read and really really enjoyed your book (my husband has as well) I think your back cover blurb needs a major re-do.

Your writing style in the book is lively and accessible, and your characters are very very well drawn and interesting individuals. It does not read at all like a dull history lesson—but this back blurb does.

AND you've pretty much left off the one intriguing item that sets this book apart from any others on the subject of Rome that I know of. It's the notion that Marcia and her brother are descendents of defeated Roman soldiers who were taken to China against their will a generation earlier. And that descendents of these Romans still exist in a small village in China today ...well, more or less.

I'd start with that idea, but make it personal. Instead of a history of what happened in the story, maybe mention a few of the important characters (maybe 5 or 6 of them, including the baddy and the near baddy—Ibrahim) and tell us what they want—in their own 'voices,' if possible. Why do these characters get drawn into this adventure? I'd start with what each one of them wants and fears. And make it simple.

And for pity's sake DON'T give the story away! You've indicated that they take a journey and come back again. You have killed the suspense stone dead.

I know you're eager to get this book out there, but don't rush so fast that you make mistakes and fall at the last hurdle. The cover is, as others have said, a crucial marketing tool.

I'm not as bothered with the front cover as some, although the two coloured standards look tacked on and garish. I think, especially if this is just a preliminary cover design for you to take to a conference, I'd remove the two coloured standards and just go with the marble. People equate marble with Rome. You could possibly find some chinese-flavoured (not garish) background to contrast in one of the spots. The main body colour would probably be a better bet, as a patterned cover with words printed over top of it will be hard to read. When in doubt, go for simplicity. It can't hurt at this stage.

But please, please please do re-write that blurb! It doesn't do your book justice at all, and will be taken as a sample of your writing style, which it definitely is not.

 

Will take that aboard. And my cover creator came on line with an absolutely fabulous cover. It is a Roman coin, encircled by a painted dragon, lovely. Will have something short.

 

When Senator Aulus Aemilius Galba is chosen to lead the first Roman mission to China, he selects Gaius Lucullus and Antonius Aristides, soldiers of the Twelfth Thunderbolt Legion, to accompany him. Marcia Lucia and her brother Marcus are translators, Chinese but of Roman ancestry, taken from their village of Liqian in their youth to serve the Han court. A notorious Arab pirate with crucifixion in his future shadows the entourage, seeking the wealthy prize of their treasure-laden ships. But Fate has other plans for these unlikely companions., sending them together on a journey that will take them thousands of miles by sea and land through the mysterious worlds of the first century.

 

I want to see! It sounds very elegant.

I think you have too many proper nouns in there. None of the names mean anything to me so it becomes a jumble. Maybe:

When Senator Aulus Aemilius Galba is chosen to lead the first Roman mission to China, he selects two soldiers of the Twelfth Thunderbolt Legion to accompany him. A brother and sister, Chinese but of Roman ancestry, are taken from their village to serve the Han court. A notorious Arab pirate with crucifixion in his future shadows the entourage, seeking the wealthy prize of their treasure-laden ships. But fate has other plans for these unlikely companions., sending them together on a journey that will take them thousands of miles by sea and land through the mysterious worlds of the first century.

I don't know if the story itself sounds appealing because it's not my thing, but I definitely think you're better off with fewer names.

 

I agree on fewer names, but this sounds more like the blurb for a query than for the back cover of a book, and I think there are subtle differences.

What genre will you be aiming at with your marketing? We can take a look at the blurbs on Amazon for top books in that genre and see what the elements seem to be... is it more of a historical, or more of an adventure? Can you think of similar books that we could look at as models?

 

Okay, I'm impatient. I decided it was historical adventure and I chose some books.

Cornwell, O'Brian, Follett - I gave you some good company!

Although it's kind of hard to track down the original blurbs for such popular books b/c the covers of editions currently for sale are mostly all about the legacy of the books, reviews from famous people, etc. So I chose a few less prominent ones as well:





I think what I'm seeing in those blurbs is more emphasis on setting, especially time. They almost all open with a date and place, and then spend some words on the social milieu.

Could you do something like that with yours?

The Roman Empire was vast in the first century AD, stretching from rugged Britannia to fertile Mesopotamia. A man could live his entire life as a trader and traveller and never step beyond familiar borders. But one man went much further...

or whatever (I only have the vaguest idea what your book's about...) but the idea would be to really set us in the time and place. I'd focus less on plot on more on the sensation of travelling through time for the reader, if that makes sense. What images are you going to create in our minds? What sights and smells and sounds will we imagine? Yeah, give me some plot and characters, but I think the key to historicals is... well, I think it's the history!

 

That sounds excellent ...and picks up the notion of trade as well.

 

And the cover is in! Anyone who want a class cover, done for a reasonable price in a short time, I highly recommend Fiona Jade, of Fiona Jade Media, www.fionajademedia.com. I think she did a great job! Much better than my homemade effort, and a cover worthy of the story. The things dangling on the red string are Chinese coins, that is why they have holes. They are called katti, the origin of the English word "cash"