Because that's how you create fresh and quality prose that has more of a chance of getting somewhere than throwing another penny into the wishing well. If you understand it and think it's unique, it's not gibberish. Opinions.
That's an optimistic way to look at it, especially if you never really plan on making it some kind of career. You're passionate about it and that's the way it should be. I am passionate about reading and writing, but I would like to earn something and the modern trend of self-publishing is ever-growing. All of this really depends, because I've noticed some decent looking independent publishing houses out there. Then again, some people are very self-interested and just care about making money off of you. It's more of a marriage to me. I don't look at it as just a business or just a hobby. I'd like to make it both and I really don't see anything wrong with wanting to merge them. There are some who are delusional and assume they're going to become rich after writing some e-books. If I thought that, I wouldn't post such a thread. I think I'm being realistic in theoretically questioning success. Writing for my enjoyment will work for now, but I would like it to pay off some time in the future. I don't assume that I'll be the next Rowling or the next Amanda Hocking success-story. This is all speculation. I love when my work is edited. There's usually a line I draw that separates editing and drastically transforming your story to their liking. When I posted my little fantasy prose here, I took the best advice here which was from shadowfax and I realized many errors. There are also certain times when people are wrong, like "It reads as if you're not being yourself and you're writing like someone else." I think I have the right to refuse that as a valid comment. Yes, all this advice is pretty solid. But, I used to write for film and writers are treated even worse in the film industry. There's always people promising and fabricating things to you, regardless of how legit they are or if you've registered your work with the Writer's Guild Of America. Eventually, self-respect lead to contemplating self-publishing for having more control over my work. I'll never forget a precious script I wrote and had produced for me in Los Angeles. I was so excited to see it come to life, but the producer's ending was a disaster. So, it's hard for me to just say "Okay, trade-publisher it is, because I have anxiety." And it's even more difficult so say "Self-publishing is the right path, because people won't be able to control or mess up my work." Quite frankly, I'm jaded. It's more complicated for me. I'm 30, not some young amateur who's oblivious of the realities that may lay ahead. @BayView Question: How long did you write for leisure before considering having your work published? How was that experience for you? Do you have any insecurities when you work on something new or are you just confident and secure?
I might just print this out in a really cool font and tape it up next to my bed. I like how you think.
Do you ever worry about your future project's success? ^^^ Going back to the title of your thread my answer is a simple > YES, I do. It's more in the sense that I worry if anyone, readers, will see what I see. Will they see the characters how I see them? Or will they see them differently? Is it, MY STORY, truly good enough and worthy of people's limited time/attention? Even though I try not to dwell on it, or dwell on satisfying the reader for that matter, from time to time these very questions do pop up during the writing process and haunt me, just like they would any writer who plans to take their work a step further AFTER... they've written it for themselves, or whether they've intended to write for a specific audience from the get-go. Will they identify the themes that are there and will they get it as a whole? Will they be moved by something that I have written? < Because that's what I want, that is what I set out to do, and that's where the success comes from. The success for me comes from touching an audience, tapping into an audience that does get it, no matter how big, because even if you reach a small amount of readers that buy your book and the feedback is positive, than your story is a success. You've made somewhat of a dent, maybe not as big as you've envisioned, but something. Even if you self-publish your effort you should consider that a success, to even get to that point.
I wrote for about six months before I submitted to a publisher? Maybe a year - I can't really remember. The first full-length thing I wrote was the first thing I got published. I don't think I have insecurities, exactly - like, I'm pretty sure whatever I write will sell to somebody. But I'm trying to work with bigger publishers now, trying to start a new, more mainstream pseudonym, and I'm aware that I have to... I don't know. I guess I'm aware that I'm swimming in a bigger pond? And I'm definitely always aware that I want to keep getting better, and staying true to my goals, etc. But I also have a good day job that I mostly enjoy and that pays quite well. So I'm not dependent on writing for my daily bread. I can't really imagine how much more intense everything would be if I had to worry about paying my bills with writing instead of socking the money away and hoping to be able to retire early.
Enjoy the journey. Focus on the process. Do your best. This is why I do not worry about my project's success.
What does "getting somewhere" mean? I think there are two separate, sometimes competing goals in writing/publishing. One is the artistic goal, which is maybe what you're talking about - trying to create something totally new and original and artistically pleasing to your soul. The other is the commercial goal - trying to create something that will sell easily and well. I don't think these goals are mutually exclusive, but I also don't think they're totally complimentary. Like, I don't think the best way to sell your book is to write something totally original. I think it should be a bit original, but if you go too far, I think you lose your audience. So if your primary goal is total originality, then, sure, ignore the market and what the publishers want. But if your goal is to get published and sell well? Why would you ignore information that could make achieving your goal more likely?
It's the difference between giving the publisher what they want or making them want what you have to offer. Sure, you can make a living off being a full time author. It'd be quite difficult, but it's perfectly possible if you meet the publishers criteria by giving them what they want. My goal isn't anything but to enjoy writing. In time, maybe I'll get good enough to be published, but I don't limit myself to the publishers desires just to get published. I'll write how I want and send it off to a publisher. If they want it, then great. If not, then life goes on, but at least my creativity won't be dictated by others. I think John Lennon said something similar about being true to his music. Can't remember exactly what, though.
Yeah, so you have your goal, other people have different goals. And depending on the goals, the approaches are going to be different. There isn't just one 'best' approach to all this.
In many (maybe all) professions, beginners usually start on a project not of their own choosing. If they succeed in that project, they eventually move on to their own things. I would assume this is sort of the same with writing. Make sure you can write a "good" novel. Get noticed. Find an agent. Get fans. THEN do whatever you want. It's not one or the other. It's one, THEN the other.
If you love writing then write and don't worry about the baggage. Personally I dislike writing, but it's like an itch, i keep going back to it, and making it worse.
But thinking about what publishers want is not necessarily the same as thinking about money. It may be thinking about readers, because you're likely to get your words read by far more people if you're traditionally published. And I write to be read; I consider writing to be communication, not private art. So if I can get myself traditionally published by compromising things that I don't care much about, and remaining true to my goal with regard to the things I do care about, heck, I'll compromise those things I don't care about. And, really, it's extremely likely that nineteen out of twenty of those "do this if you want to get published" things will IMPROVE my work, not just based on the publisher's standards, but on my own. For me, it's not about money. But it's also not private art. Edited to add: Now, if I had any realistic hope, any at all, of making a living from writing, so that I could write full-time, it might be about money to that extent, because the money would serve the writing. But that hope is not realistic. Even if I get published one of these days, I expect to keep my day job.
From the advice on submission - The procedure at Conville and Walsh is that out of some 350 submissions each month, I recommend between 6 and 10 for the agents to follow up. Out of this shortlist, perhaps two authors will be asked to submit their full manuscripts to the agents. Of the authors who are asked to forward us their full manuscripts, possibly three to four a year will get through to publication. 3 or 4 a year out of over 4,000 submissions. That's not good odds. But any single entry hasn't got a 1,000 to 1 chance - that assumes all are of equal quality, originality and commercial appeal. I enjoyed writing what I'm currently submitting but I'm fairly sure the more original aspect of it also make it less commercially appealing. I'll do better next time. But won't be counting on any income from writing. oh hang on. I used to win things writing slogans for comps. And I won a prize for an essay of teacher's of tomorrow as a trainee teacher. I see what I've been doing wrong - I've switched to writing novel length when there is more reward for 12 word slogans. But then I enjoy writing novels.
This isn't really true, but as BayView said, everyone has their own goals, styles, and methods so it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Just do what you need to do to get were you want to be.
My apologies. I haven't read through the entire thread but your OP caught my attention and I wanted to respond. I preface all of my comments by saying that I am an as yet unpublished author with a completed novel that I am currently pitching and which has drawn some interest from editors. Your questions are good ones, and suggest that you are new to the field. To a certain extent, this is cart-before-horse territory. It may be fun to contemplate (or disquieting, if a fear), but ultimately it is a distraction until you have at the very least completed a first draft. In my younger days, I delayed for many years my determination to be a writer because I thought it conceited to think I had something to say to others. The truth is that everyone has something to say, some elemental truth to pass on. So, for you, the key is to decide what the elemental truth is that you want to share and what is the story you want to tell to convey it. Don't be surprised if you get well into crafting your story before you realize just what that elemental truth is - I speak from experience. Know what the basic quest/goal/objective of your story's hero is at the start - find the wizard and get back to Kansas; alert the President and stop the coup; resist the Nazis while protecting the children. Know your antagonist and the sources of conflict. Does your story energize you? Because if it doesn't, it won't energize anyone else. But if it does, and you tell it well, there will be those who want to buy it. There is a recording extant on the internet of an interview Larry King did not too long ago with Neil deGrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist. Early in the interview, King said, "So, I guess you were always good at math." Tyson replied that, yes, through his early schooling he "got it" with math. But when he got to calculus, he was initially as lost as everyone else. It was only as he went over it and reviewed it that it made sense to him. "Actually," he added, "it's not important to be 'good at math'. It's much more important to want to be good at it, because then ambition takes over." It's exactly the same with writing. If you want to be a good writer, you will do all the things you need to do to become one - read widely and carefully, noting what others have done successfully, and then apply what you have observed to your own work - and you will want to devote as much effort as you can to your story, not just to get it written, but edited, revised and finally polished. There are almost as many different ways to get there as there are writers. Joseph Wambaugh (The Onion Field) said that he writes 1,000 words per day, no matter what. That never worked for me because life too often intruded to prevent it, and it requires the writer to write when (s)he is well below peak performance, which to me always seemed counterproductive. But a lot of folks on this forum recommend it. If your life is not subject to frequent jarring disruptions, it may be a good way to establish the writing habit at the beginning. YMMV. Ultimately, if you follow my answer to #1 and add ambition, you should be able to get there. This is a distraction. Writing is what you want to do. Focus on that, first. Get it written and polished, then you can start focusing on how and where to get it published, traditional vs. self-pub and all that entails. If you have a good and commercially viable product, there will always be those who can assist you (a published writer I recently met once hired her own public relations person). Good luck.
Well, I think a thunderbox is an Aussie term for a toilet, so don't be too quick to thank him. Can't say I'm familiar with the term laying down the thunder though.
How do you know this isn't really true?? Honestly your advice just doesn't work for amateur writers, who presumably don't know how to get where they need to be. Things require learning.
I'm an amateur writer and my advice works fine for me. You don't have to go to music school to become a musician. You don't have to go to art college to become an artist. You don't have to go to university to become a writer. And you certainly don't have to be at the beckoning call of a publisher to get published. Learn to write. Not how a publisher wants you to write, but how you want to write. If you want to grind out prose aimed at the market to make a regular living from writing, then sure. Go ahead, but you'll always be restricted by what the publisher wants, and your target market. On the other hand, you can write a piece of work that you want to write, and if it's a great piece, publishers guidelines won't mean shit, they will want that work no matter what because it'll fresh and awesome and it'll sell. Maybe even be the next big thing? Who knows. When I briefly studied at LIPA (Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts), one of the first things I was told was that you never know when something is going to take off. Edit: Here's a question for you: do you give feedback based on how to improve one's story, or what a publisher would want?
Since his Madregentness is from the UK, I'm not sure it would apply, anyway. But I usually give someone the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it.
