Ginge...you were unwilling to accept a training and personal experience based opinion on an issue which you had no experience, now you are saying we should accept your training and personal experience based opinion on another issue--that is the very definition of hypocrisy. I would say your agenda is being made perfectly clear: self aggrandizement.
Whew, first of all, GingerCoffee, I think I want to give you an e-hug, I'm sorry to hear bad stuff like that has happened in your family and social circles. To answer to the OP: I'm not sure if we can generalize at all here. Some people with mental problems may resort to writing to feel better (or music, sports, you name it), to process their problems or to "keep their head together". Some writers may have started out more or less sane, but e.g. stress and loss can cause depression, or maybe they became injured which led to painkiller addiction which led to substance abuse. Then the subsequent withdrawing from the drug leads to depression, yet this was in no way related to writing. Sure, some need to be inebriated in order to be or feel creative, and that can lead to mental problems as well.
In my opinion, I think that you are missing the fact, that no matter how elegantly translated, Tolstoy was expressing his opinion. After reading through the lengthy quotes, I also do not see the connection with the topic of mental health and creativity.
In my opinion, you are overlooking the post where Ginger quoted your rather convoluted comments and said that she didn't think you were that far apart. To me, some of your statements appeared absolute and general and it was only later that you admitted your experience/training was with a small subset of people. The information you had to deal with in that job was truly horrific and I can see why it left you so bitter.
Insanity is a good thing as far as writing's concerned. Edgar Allan Poe was crazy later in life, and he was a genius.
To add to this, Poe wasn't 'crazy' in the last part of his life. The idea that Poe was some mentally ill alcoholic is no longer accepted - it's becoming clear this was just a smeer campaign by Poe's once friend Rufus Griswold.
Mental illness doesn't happen only in writing. A lot of artists seen in the museums are haunted by it too. I know I hate having Bipolar and hate what happens when I accidentally forget my meds for a day. Good grief, can you say MOODY?? However, the line between genius and mental instability is thin.
Yeah, geniuses were often called 'crazy' simply because people couldn't understand their concepts - or their enthusiasm.
But-but-but Poe IS a genius! Or was, anyway. Try reading some of his non-Raven stuff. Ever heard of "Ligeia"? Or "The Fall Of The House Of Usher"? No! Then READ 'em dammit! They're public domain, just search the titles in Google. You won't be disappointed!
LIGEIA http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2149/2149-h/2149-h.htm#link2H_4_0029 THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER http://www.gutenberg.org/files/932/932-h/932-h.htm
my reply I think its a double-edged sword really. I too have seen a common thread in writers and mental illness and I myself am a writer with mental illness. I think most people with mental illness tend to have more imagination and I know thats an overgeneralization but thats just what i see.
I'm only chiming in because I'm also a recovering addict whose managed to find continuous sobriety. After doing tons of reading on the subject, and also discovering what the program that got me sober enlightened me on, there is ample evidence in not only my life, but in the hundreds of others, if not thousands, or hundreds of thousands of people, who can pinpoint symptoms WELL before the chemicals entered the picture, be it alcohol or drugs or both. But I do feel you on the choice thing, I just personally believe a person lacks the ability to choose, until they become aware there is: one, a solution, and two, a different way of life/the ability to get sober. Chemicals are just a solution to a much deeper problem and I know tons of people, including myself, who feel they would have found SOMETHING and latched onto it, at some point in life, while living under the premise that a solution does not exist, because the problem was going untreated, so the search for a solution would have been continuous, and chemicals are just flat out the best answer for people to haven't been taught how to cope--the core problem, the lacking of coping mechanisms that have been seen to exist innately in people who don't suffer from the same problem, but need to be developed in people like me, who lived and believed there was no possible solution to what was going on inside. They have also managed to classify three types of users/drinkers. Social users/drinkers, Hard Drinkers/Users (who sometimes show symptoms and may even be identical to the addict/alcoholic, but for whatever reason, when presented with a serious ultimatum, can somehow STOP entirely, or MODERATE their consumption), and then you have the 'real' addict or alcoholic, who lack the ability to consciously stop using for two reasons. One, they've found the best solution in their life, which leads them to repeatedly use it in their search for continuous relief. And then you throw in the neuroscience and side-effects of chemicals on the brain, when the body stops producing certain chemicals naturally, because you've conditioned it to expect an outside source, resulting in the problem becoming one of compulsion to simply re-adjust your state of mind and physical well-being, because it's not only your solution to life, but now you HAVE to--a recipe for disaster, and one that millions of people have not been able to say 'no' to, due to the inability to choose, while a small percentage of people have been able to 'choose' abstinence. If you've been shown a solution, and have put together some clean-time, showed a toolkit of coping mechanisms, and have allowed enough time to pass for new neurons to form and for the physical side-effects to calm down or go away, then sure, I believe and agree with you that it then becomes a choice to go back out. But the problem is not a physical thing for people unaware, it's a mental game of fear, false realities, and an innate dislike for being in one's own skin--a spiritual malady requiring a spiritual solution in order to discover a way to cultivate happiness and become happy with who you are as a person. I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how long have you been sober? And do you abstain from all mind-altering chemicals? If not, and you just don't drink, then why do you feel the need to use other substances? (maybe opiates or muscle relaxers or intoxicating anxiety meds or sedatives, or pot, I don't know.) Existentially, it could be said that anyone who is continually seeking some kind of release through intoxication, whether it be safe and responsible, or excessive and harmful, they do so because they are not completely one, or at peace, with their 'true' reality. And that's not to say the converse isn't true either, and the same can be said for non-intoxicating escapes, such as excessive isolation, working too much, becoming extremely angry and resentful, escaping through sex or relationships--insert variable here that allows one to 'get outside themselves, and a whole other list of symptoms that can even show up harmfully in sobriety--the 'dry addict/alcoholic, and a case of the problem still not being dealt with properly, which also leads me to believe that it's something more than just chemicals? But a flaw in thinking/internalizing reality? Active use/drinking for addicts and alcoholics also has the exact same pathology as harmful diseases, such as being progressive and life-threatening, and a couple other things they call requirements for what constitutes a disease. It's been a while, I don't remember all of them, but there are 3 or 4 requirements. P.S. I apologize for the long paragraph, this damn computer won't allow me to indent new paragraphs.
A double space would work instead of indenting. As to my sobriety, I had to stop and think when the last time was I had a drink. Has to be over 15 years. 17 maybe? Other 'mind altering' chemicals - none. I tried pot three times and fell asleep all three times (followed by being violently ill). I just see no use for any of that stuff now.
word word.. very cool.. and that's a hell of a lot of time, man... surely admirable, at least from where I sit.. thanks for taking the time to reply..
While it is true that it seems that many famous writers suffered from some type of mental illness, I'm not convinced there's a real co-relation there. There is a large percentage of the population with mental illness of various types - more than most people realize - and there are a lot of writers in the world. I think the reason it appears there's a correlation with writers (at least successful ones) and mental illness is simply because we hear about it, which makes us think it happens more often than it does.
Exactly. In fact--even though I took shit for saying this--engaging in the arts (especially successfully) reduces the stress factors that can contribute to the type of anxieties that exacerbate or can lead to mental confusion or collapse. Success can be really liberating.
Shoot You can test everyone and their grandmother for some sort of mental illness or a sort of problem and I'm sure they'll have something. The point I'm trying to make is everybody has something even if it doesn't show as much as it would in others.
A lot of people can have psychological problems, even psychological quirks - that doesn't make it some sort of 'diluted' mental illness. It's not a mental illness unless and until it adversely affects (actually interferes with) your ability to live a relatively normal life. Being depressed when a parent dies is not a mental illness - it's normal; being depressed to the point where many days you can't get out of bed and lose your job because of it is.
Replace the word writers with any other occupation and submit it in the respective forum and I'm sure a similar (if not same) thread will follow. I hate to say it (I don't really); you are not special; you do not wield some unique mental disorder that allows you to tap into the darkness of man that gives you greater ability to achieve higher esteem in the field of [insert field of specialty here]. Not just writers, we as a whole are all a little loony.
Absolutely, well said. You see this argument from people who's agenda is to get people to believe that we are all the same. In the big "we are all human" picture, yes human beings all fall within a certain realm of possible behaviors. But within that realm there are many ways of being. I often wonder why it is so important for these people to blur the boundaries between normal human behavior and damaging human behavior.
This seems a little more hostile than this discussion warrants don't you think? I have not seen anyone insulting you personally or is it just the topic that bothers you?
