Writing From a Female Perspective

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Mikmaxs, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    he didn't write Aliens, so.... moot point.

    Cameron is a master at writing well rounded, capable but still female women. Learn.
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    That's an incredibly good point.
     
  3. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You're dealing with two different aspects of the gender thing here.

    One ...differences in gender that affect a character.

    Two ...differences in social attitudes TOWARDS gender that affect a character.

    I think once you get number Two sorted out for your story, you'll see a way forward. Because this is a fantasy you're writing, and it's not set in the real world, you have total control over number Two. How does your world view females? How did your particular character get raised within this world? Was she taught to obey 'rules' or ignore them? And then there is her own personality to consider as well. Is she passive? Active? Stubborn? Realistic? Openminded? Resourceful? Manipulative?

    All these things will come to bear, and will determine whether your character is believable or not.

    One of my favourite things to do, as a writer, is to flip gender for my characters. In other words, some of my female characters (real-world) are based on men or boys I have known. And a few of my male characters are based on women or girls I've known. It's funny how the gender doesn't seem to matter. What matters is their personality. That seems to transcend gender.
     
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  4. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    You have a brain and are very cautious with gender roles. So under what possible scenario could your female character end up acting so masculine that a woman would be comfortable telling you or even thinking that a woman would never act that way? I can't think of any and I believe this isn't a real issue. I think you're worrying over something thats so unlikely to happen because of believing there's some secret or subtle way of thinking unfathomable to you that women share. Some feminine mystique if you will. But as that isn't a real thing, the answers you get from the female perspective are inevitably disappointing and amount to little more than "be complex".
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  5. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    But each of those several billion has a different experience being female. In your OP you write about "writing women as real women" as if there's one way to be a woman, and in this post you're writing about "being a female person" as if that's the same for everyone.

    This isn't about writing a gender-neutral character, it's about not overemphasizing the differences you think there would be. If you wrote a male character, would you feel that you'd be creating a problem if you wrote without "ever acknowledging [his] gender"? Or would the use of the male pronoun be the only acknowledgement you'd really need?

    You've made your character physically stronger than the average woman already. You've given her a magical ability no real-world woman possesses. You've placed her in a society very different from ours and aren't interested in pursuing a romantic subplot. If you're desperate for realism, you could mention what an aggravation it is to get her period when she's travelling, or if you've given her large breasts have her deal with binding them for comfort, or, if your society isn't quite as egalitarian as it seems, have her worry about rape/assault when she encounters strangers.

    But in terms of actual characterization? Do you know shy women? Do you know aggressive women? Do you know smart and stupid women? Do you know women who are all about emotion, and others who focus on logic? There is no female monolith. Write a rich character. She's female. Done.
     
  6. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    I don't care how busty you are, never bind in a fight. Breathing comes first everytime. Breast (or any localized) discomfort is a distant second.
     
  7. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    @Nicoel Look at post number #2

    On topic. I personally don't think this is something to worry about. At least not as presented. I struggle with boys more and I am one! But then again I am not your standard boy type(assuming there is a standard boy type?) I as a result find it harder to mentally picture myself in different extremes as boys. Its almost as if being a boy makes it harder to think more relaxed! lol.

    I think the issue is. "Making your characters act correctly in context." and girl IS a question that is brought up, but so is personality and upbringing and desires and sooo sooo many things to numerous to list off. Its about formatting in your mind who this character is, and discovering how they would react to portray them accurately. Empathy and creativity will do you more good than any sort of list.
     
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  8. Shreddinger

    Shreddinger New Member

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    I once read a quote by an author: "First, I create characters, then I make them female".
    To create a convincing character you must make it feel whole, well-rounded and 3-dimensional. This means that his/her backstory and background reflects on the feelings/attitude and deeds (At least at the beginning, as characters normally grow during the story). Certain reactions are universal. For example: A soldier comes back from war, wounded, he migh have PTSD, no matter if it's a man or woman. (Some neuroscientist might now say that men have a slightly lower chance for whatever reason, I just made that up, could be also the other way round, doesn't matter, you get the point) A woman can have "boyish" interests, just like a boy can act like a girl. You just need to make sure that everything is somehow explained with how the character evolved before the story begins.
     
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  9. Nicoel

    Nicoel Senior Member

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    I play that role for @GuardianWynn and it's an honor to be his editor in chief. <salutes>

    Two different perspectives can really help a piece develope.
     
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  10. Denegroth

    Denegroth Banned

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    I once had a situation requiring some research into "What would a woman think, do or say?" Fortunately, I have three ex-wives I still communicate with, as well as an adult daughter and stepdaughter. After some time, one of the exes says, "What's this sudden interest in women?" And, I thought I was some kind of Casanova.
     
  11. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @Nicoel envy you not.
    I hate editing.
     
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  12. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Not have her be the only female in the story.

    In my Doctor Who fanfic:
    • If Kyra Sylvan had been my only female character, then 100% of my female cast being a people-oriented psychic with strong religious convictions would've given the impression that all women in my story's world are obsessed with socializing and religion.
    • If Captain June Harper had been my only female character, then 100% of my female cast being a bisexual, promiscuous people-oriented bloodthirsty vigilante serial killing leader of the protagonists would've given the impression that all women in my story's world are hypersexual, domineering, and hyper-emotional
    • If Arachne had been my only female character, then 100% of my female cast being a sentient ship would've given the impression that all women in my story's world are some species other than humans.
    • If Colonel Leeson had been my only female character, then 100% of my female cast working for a mad science facility bent on perfecting a super-soldier program would've created the impression that all women in my story's world care so much about making other people "better" that they're willing to torture you to death to do it
    • If TL-13-Beta / "Kathryn" had been my only female character, then 100% of my female cast being a Time Lord who becomes the ship's lead mechanic would've given the impression that all women are a species other than human and that they should all work in manual fields.
    When you have multiple male characters with diverse skill-sets and personalities, but you only have one female character, then whatever skills and personality traits you give her will create a new stereotype in your story's world, even if it doesn't reflect existing stereotypes and/or catch on in the real world to the point of replacing them.
     
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  13. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    It's surprising to me how often we have threads about "how to write women" and I don't think I've ever seen a thread about "how to write men" on this or any other writers' forum.

    Men, if you were asked by a female writer "how to write a realistic man" would you be able to answer the question? Could you offer advice on a convincingly male point of view?
     
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  14. S~A~W

    S~A~W Banned

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    What makes movie examples sort of off limits in this discussion is you have visually there before you a female. In a novel the author is characterizing a female in text, so regardless of the pronouns and name, she has to read as a she.
    Funny. I LOL-ed.

    (When you've dominated a society for a few thousand years, you're not a big mystery.
    Well, maybe to you, but vanity ruled out? As they say on ESPN, "C'mon, man."
     
  15. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    "Just write a woman without breasts."
     
  16. Shreddinger

    Shreddinger New Member

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    If you do that you will find yourself using another trope which is as bad as going with a "feminine" point of view.
    Yes, a woman has breasts, but these don't affect her emotions that it would matter.
    Writing a convincing "masculine woman" is actually a lot harder than writing an "ordinary" woman.
     
  17. S~A~W

    S~A~W Banned

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    "Writing from a female perspective...." the thread title. Literally? It can't be done by males. It would then be
    "Writing from a male perspective...."

    Believe-ability and plausibility will be the point of judgement regardless of if you're male writing a female, female writing a male, cow characterizing a dog, parrot trying to repeat grand opera. Individual writers are only as insightful as they are, knowledgeable as they are, and will take whatever steps they judge necessary to either create those two in their works, or not.

    If you don't know, ask. Your work will rise and fall on the merit of a combination of characteristics among which are believe-ability and plausibility.
     
  18. terobi

    terobi Senior Member

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    Here's the thing, you're not trying to write "all women" - you're trying to write one woman.

    Most of the girls I know can sink a pint, swear like sailors, and will happily punch to the ground any man who messes with them.

    Stop worrying about "what women are like", and just concentrate on writing a believable character. Where that strays from what the conventional wisdom of what women are supposed to act like, then just point out that this one doesn't act like that.
     
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  19. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Don't Explain The Joke

    The point being that anybody who reads the quote would immediately be reminded of all of the fantastic explanations in the thread so far about why the inverse statement does not apply the way people think it does ;)

    In all some seriousness, there is actually one specific difference between most men and most women that has come up in my own writing:

    I found an article a while back about linguistic differences between how most men and how most women speak, and the male author of the article mentioned that the male characters in a woman author's story felt "off" to him, but he couldn't put his finger on anything for why. Then one of the male characters mentioned in his narration how much he was "filled with admiration for" the woman he was on a date with. According to the male author of the article, the female author of the story did not realize that "admire" is not one of the first words that would come to mind of a man thinking about a woman he's attracted to.​

    One of the men and one of the women in my Urban Fantasy WIP are both straight, yet they both love each other platonically more than either one of them have ever loved anybody romantically. Ever since finding this article, I have been scouring my pages and my outlines for places for the guy to mention how much he admires his best friend for making headlines as the Deadliest Female Serial Killer in American History.
     
  20. OnlineJF

    OnlineJF New Member

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    Women/girls aren't all the same. I think you simply have to decide how she is, or how she strives to be (perhaps with some trial and error on her part) and then be consistent. It could be to your advantage to not be female. Maybe your character will be refreshing because of it. Of course, female feedback is a great idea.

    If you chose this protagonist because you want this story to entice teenage girls, I'd recommend two things in particular. 1) Consider adding a love interest, and 2) Focus on what a girl might WISH she could be/do, more than what/how you think girls are now. Girls have strength disadvantages but most want to be strong. Girls have confidence problems but most want to be confident. Girls are underestimated but most want to prove everyone wrong.

    And readers want to live vicariously through your character who becomes all the things they wish they could be. ;-)
     
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  21. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @BayView I think the first question that should be asked regardless of gender writing their opposite,
    would be: How do you identify/classify a man/woman on an emotional/intellectual level?

    They are mentally and physically wired differently.
    They are treated differently from women.
    They are the minority of the two genders.
    They are forced to compete for the affection of the majority.

    Not that complex on the surface really. The deeper down you get
    into the mentality, the richer the rabbit hole gets. Some things
    have not changed in tens of thousands of years. A man will
    still follow his instinct to protect a woman, even if it has
    no benefit to him on a reproductive or romantic level.
    Truly unique how our primitive and modern brains work.

    I am going to and hang my self because when you have
    no equitable value, no one will do the courtesy of putting
    you out of your misery. Ah humans fucking lovely. :supergrin:

    FYI that was a joke, because I am treated like crap
    by the women in my community when it comes
    to romantic relations. Nice guys finish fucking dead last. :p
     
  22. Denegroth

    Denegroth Banned

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    Let me guess. The major pitfall would be writing your own prejudices, or anecdotal narrow-mindedness into the character. What would be the next pitfall? Writing your own cultural bias into it, as well?

    I know! Counseling others on their craft from the basis of your own prejudices! :supercool:
     
  23. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    How'd you mean? Be specific. :p
     
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  24. S~A~W

    S~A~W Banned

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    let's not get into this
     
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  25. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    So we're going with a straight male for this one... okay... obviously some male characters won't fit that, but... okay.

    For the rest of it - I'm not convinced that the "mentally and physically wired differently" differences are more true between Woman A and Man A than they are between Woman A and Woman Z. I know lots of men who seem to think more like I do than lots of women... again, neither men nor women are monolithic, right?

    And I'm not sure what you mean about men being the minority of the genders - there are actually slightly more men in the world than women, but the difference is so slight that I think we'd say there are about the same number of each...

    Again, some men fit this, but others, of course, do not. There are men (far too many) who apparently don't have the protective instinct, or who have perverted it to the point that they're the chief danger to the women they encounter. If someone writes a male serial killer, is that character "not a realistic man" because he's not protective of women? Or just a male abuser, without the "glamour" of serial murders - not a realistic male character?
     
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