But since the writing is said to have no merit it can't be included with that. So we're back to the idea that it's just plain marketing that made a bad book into a success on the level of Twilight, which is an asinine proposition if you think about it (and an even worse one when you look again at the advance the publisher paid, presumably on the completely blind hope that this time the marketing would pay off in spades. It just doesn't make sense).
Red tops are the crap newspapers - the daily star, the sun, the mirror etc - so called because they all have red banners... i'm not sure what the North American equivalent is, National Enquirer may be Also I wouldn't say its a straw man argument because you did say that good didn't matter so long as it was effective - so if you are now saying that they are not 'bastions of great literature' how do you judge that greatness, if not by being good and well written ?
The success of the books. I don't think anyone is arguing that these books in question are great literature, just that they effectively did their jobs.
In regard of 50 shades, i would say it is pretty much marketting that made it into a success - James knew her audience - twimoms - and wrote to appeal to them with minimum attention paid to whether he actual writing was any good, probably because she knew that twimoms weren't the most discriminating in that regard. In regard of twilight I suspect that it rode a wave of interest created in that genre by other works of teen vampires and werewolves, and that to a large extent the commercial success of the books was down to the massive hype created by the films
(Bangs gavel) Look, as literature 50 Shades is the lowest form of dog shit. As entertainment, it's about as high as it gets (judging strictly by sales and readership). Does it lower the bar for other writers and books in general? Maybe a little, but I don't think Faulkner is rolling in his grave or anything. Does it cheapen what "serious" writers attempt to do with their characterization or basic grammar? No, let's not be so easily threatened. Does it make aspiring writers jealous? Er, um, cough.... Is it effective? Of course it is! Look how much fucking money it made! (reads verdict) It's a poorly written work that people enjoyed reading. Let's get over it.
But how do you judge great litterature if not by it being well written ? that was the question I meant to ask... yes 50S did its job, but Bay seemed to be saying that so long as litterature is effective it doesnt have to be well written
No, I believe it hit the bestseller list shortly after publication, well before the movies came out. While the movies certainly led to a boom in sales, the book was already popular enough to warrant a movie. When I saw a trailer for the first film in theaters, before I knew what it was, members of the audience starting cheering it and it was still a ways from release. The audience from the book was already anxious for it.
Apart from considerations of grammar this can get fairly subjective. I know works I thought were written wonderfully and others thought were poorly written, and vice verse.
I don't really believe in the idea of "great" literature, independent of the tastes of the people calling it "great". That's kind of the point of my "can we come up with five books we'd all agree are great" game. I don't think it makes sense to create a hierarchy of art. It's far too subjective.
As an addendum I just conferred with Mrs. Homer and she said the book made her, um, amorous. Not that the mere sight of me doesn't or anything, but that's got to be good right? A lot of people probably got laid as a direct result of 50 Shades, and that's got to be good for the general harmony of civilization, no?
But it was also blamed by the fire brigade for an increased workload because people were being foolish, including one guy sticking his member in a toaster. Well they say that the truth is stranger than fiction.
to be fair people have always had the predilection to be flaming idiots - shades just gave a convenient excuse I used to date a casualty nurse (that's ER to the Americans among us I think) about fifteen years ago, and I remember her telling me about a guy who had got into the habit of... ahem... stimulating himself with a random orbital sander (like you do) only this time he had forgotten to take the sand paper off first and gave himself an impromptu circumcision. Also round about the same time I discovered a bloke in one of our car parks - stark bollock naked and handcuffed to a tree. It seems the previous night he'd arranged to meet a stranger there for sex, it was regrettably a well known cruising site and had allowed this man he didnt know at all to handcuff him to said tree. However instead of then engaging in BDSM delights this stranger had stolen his car, wallet, and all his clothes
But... random orbital sanders typically hold sandpaper with velcro with the hook side on the machine... how did he not shred his skin off either way? The other one, sad to say, just made me laugh.
I assume it was one of the old sort that holds the paper on with clips at either side of the pad, where the pad itself is smooth rubber (I did say this was 15 years ago) I've got one like that - but I've never been tempted to use it as an impromptu vibrator
The Star Wars Prequels also made alot of money. Doesn't mean they're good movies. There's a reason books are measured by not only commercial success, but by critical success as well. Within the Harlequin Romance genre, Twilight is same old with a vampire instead of a pirate. It succeeded because it quickly filled in the void left by the Buffyverse shows ending. The vast majority of books are just as mediocre and don't have that advantage of catching the right vibe at the right time. But that does not preclude it having longevity if it was better written. I believe people would be talking about it 10 or 20 years from now if only it was written well. It may even have become a classic remembered 100 years from now. If I were to praise Meyer, it's as a businesswoman, not a writer.
I don't know if any random orbits use that these days, I know some of our sheet sanders still do that (I sell to builders as a day job right now). But... to get off on it is just... @Homer Potvin Does preventing someone blowing up their house count?
Better that you be offended by wildly popular books, such as Twilight and 50 Shades, that use female characters as submissive, needy, clingy role models. I suspect the vast majority of readers of this literary trash, are in fact girls and women who probably need a reminder that it's 2017, and things have changed.
I don't need some random dude on the internet taking it upon himself to prioritize and police what I find offensive.
Women don't need you to remind them what's important, decent and worthy. We get to define that for ourselves.
We're not talking about a literary masterpiece, just well written stories. And on that account, I can list many well written fantasy books that were successful, have been made into movies, and are respected by the literary community. Twilight and 50 Shades are not among those books. So if you wish to defend books like 50 Shades of Grey, and the silly women that read trash, than have at it.
