You Know You've Got the Wrong Beta Reader When . . .

I believe in reciprocation of course but I don't like beta-ing each other's work at the same time.

 

You know you've got the wrong beta reader when you don't understand what they are saying, and half of you wonders whether they understand what they are saying, while the other half will not dare admit it in case what they said was just over my head.

 

Really? That's how I get most of my beta reads. I do trades with people who are talented writers, in a genre similar to mine, and give good critique. Then simultaneously we read and give feedback on each others work on a chapter by chapter bases.

That's the most effective method I've found thus far to get good, quality feedback.

 

...so honey, telephone and tell me how you are, hello hello hello hello hello...

The worst kind of beta would be somebody who insists you tell the story THEIR way instead of your own. Your story gives them ideas, and they think you ought to change what you've written to what they'd like to see happening instead.

Fair enough if they want to suggest a change, but they need to back off (and go write their own) if you say no.

I've had a few betas push up to that line, but none who crossed it. I think I've been very lucky with great betas.

 

It hasn't worked for me at all. All my successful beta reads have been on an IOU basis. I found people were beta-ing my work just to get their own done and they weren't actually interested in giving good, useful feedback. They also tended to be those who'd never read my genre.

I see loads of tales of people who've critiqued an entire novel and never hear from the author again, even though they'd agreed to swap feedback. The only way around that is to trade a chapter at a time, or x number of chapters at a time, and I learned from my first novel that's not a good way to get beta feedback.

Alpha feedback/critique partners are a different kettle of fish. For beta reading, I want to send a whole novel and I don't want it to be tit-for-tat at that moment in time.

 

All these things can DEFINITELY happen. I've learned the hard way. But there are easy enough ways around them.

First, I usually beta trade with someone in the same genre and target audience as my story. I trade only the first three chapters to see their quality feedback and if I want to invest the time in their story (if it is right for me). Then, if we proceed together, we trade on a chapter by chapter bases, or in sets so that there is no risk of one person getting their beta read completed then jumping ship.

I usually approach both Alpha and Beta feedback in a similar manner.

 

I really don't like the chapter-by-chapter thing and I find it difficult getting a sufficient number of beta readers who write in my genre. But each to their own, hey? As long as we get beta feedback that's useful to us, the process we use doesn't matter.

 

Just out of curiosity. What is your method for getting beta readers? I haven't had any success with any other methods except for the one I described.

 

I made a thread/put a request in my sig and some incredible people offered to beta for me. I also approached two directly because they'd critiqued a portion of the novel and said they'd be interested in reading more. None of the ones who gave good feedback had finished novels for me to read at the time--they just wanted to do it for their own benefit or for fun or because they liked my writing. Some have since called in the favour, others haven't, but they all know they're welcome to!

 

I think it's important you ask readers who have shown an interest, rather than approaching an individual in the forum who didn't show interest first. So requesting in a thread or in a sig is good.

 

You know you have the wrong beta reader when she insists your novel can't be a romance because the protags didn't have a passionate love scene four or five months before the story begins.

 

You can click "reply" in the bottom right-hand corner of the post you wish to quote, and then it'll appear in the reply with the author you're quoting tagged. (you know, like what I just did )

You know they're the wrong beta-reader when they like absolutely nothing, and basic character interactions seem to make no sense to them where nobody else had problems with. Essentially for me that shows someone who perhaps processes information quite differently to myself, makes different assumptions than I would in general - that doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make their feedback invalid per se. However, it isn't useful because it's just not how you as the actual author think, not how you'd process information, and thus you couldn't possibly write the way that would satisfy this beta even if you tried. It might be an interesting psychological study, but not useful feedback.

 

So true. Years ago, I almost got a divorce after getting feedback on my first novel attempt from my wife. (just kidding, but it makes a great story )

 

And that's why I don't ask anyone in my family for feedback. (sigh)

 

Sounds like your writing could be classed as a super-power.

 

When six months later they're still going to get back to you 'soon'.

 

But, being a tough beta reader is kind of the point (going by what you look for yourself). And you wouldn't believe the veritable flood of ideas I've been dealing with over the last week while banging out the scene-by-scene synopsis for the next draft. This time around, I'm concentrating on solid motivations, clarity of scene goals (and how they relate back to overall story goals) and strengthening the third act.

And yes, there were a few things you said that didn't make it into the final list of changes (wild horses won't drag that list out of me), but overall, you gave me lots of solid stuff to work with.

 

Sounds like art college.

 

Yeah, I think you've hit on a very important point. A good beta gives you ideas.

Their critique might not include specific ideas for improvement, but their criticisms should be specific enough that you can think ...okay, I see what they're getting at. They've uncovered a problem. Now how can I fix it? Because you didn't see the problem till they pointed it out, you weren't thinking about a fix before. Now you are.

If a beta gets you get excited about making changes rather than discouraged about making mistakes, I think you've got yourself a good beta.

 

Sometimes that happens, though. I got swamped fairly recently with lots of beta requests. These were all requests I'd said 'yes' to a while back ...and then things started to pile up and I lost altitude. However, I'm now clear of all the obligations, and I think I made a fair job of the critiques, once I got around to them.

And no, I'm not asking for more! I've got my own stuff to tend to. And that's been taking a back seat recently—not only because of the beta requests that piled up, but my husband's health crisis which ate up more or less the past 6 months. Now that his health is on the mend, I can get back to my own stuff. I need to keep distractions to a minimum until I can actually get my novel up for sale. It's so close.

 

This thread gave me an idea. It's probably already being done but would offering a paid Beta reading service be a decent marketing idea? Nothing like an editing service and it wouldn't need to cost as much. Just a read by someone interested in your genre to give honest opinions about the story / plot / themes / etc.

 

Paid beta-reader services exist.

 

And GoodReads has a beta readers' group.

Looking over the site, I may go this route. I'm impressed by this website:
http://www.quiethouseediting.com/beta-reader-network.html

$100 to beta read 100,000 word manuscript ($1/1,000 words).

They have a confidentiality contract that is reassuring. I may look for reviews of the service.

 

I wouldn't use one because as a service provider, the paid beta reader would give favourable 'reviews' so as to secure future business. And even if that wasn't the case for that particular paid beta reader, I'd still be wondering every time I got a favourable comment from them.

 

I agree with this. I wouldn't trust someone I'm paying to give me something as ephemeral and subjective as an opinion. There's no come back on them for being wrong at all and that's a big no-no. Not to say that it couldn't be useful in some cases, but when there is money involved it becomes about making money not actually doing the best job. If someone brings me their piece of crap book and give me a hundred to read it and talk a bit then I'm not going to tell them to quit writing and kill themselves at the end, even if that's my reaction. I want this person to come and pay me another hundred for their next piece of crap too.

Additionally; it'd feel like yet another service preying on the dreams of wannabe writers; if you want to be a novelist then you must do this course, attend this seminar, come to our networking event and hire a professional to get opinions from because your mum and your mates would obviously just lie to you.

That said; I have plenty of time and no money so if anyone does want to set this up then I would totally be up for being a paid beta.