Lithium Ion batteries (rechargeable) and safety

Safety testing for LiFePo4 batteries

Looks like the LFP batteries (LiFePo4) aren't immune to catching fire:

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But at least it isn't like the massive death-jets of intense fire that shoot out for 15 feet in several directions you get from Li-Ion and most other rechargables, plus, at least in this test, it isn't caused by overheating but only by puncture. That would be analogous to gasoline cars catching fire because of an accident, which is what usually causes that.

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Encouraging results. Unfortunatley the only batteries I've been able to replace with LiFePo4 are for my flashlights—the rest are all unidentified Li-Ion technology, most of which I don't think are replaceable. I have two laptops, a couple of lanterns, an electric drill, a string trimmer, and a (useless, weak-ass) leaf blower, all rechargeable. One of the lanterns might allow me to remove and replace the batteries, the rest definitely don't. Hopefully, since this testing has been done and the results are clear, industries will start to move toward the safer alternatives.

It turns out the battery charger I already had will also charge LFP batteries (LiFePo4). Wish I had thought to check that before ordering the new charger. You just have to hold down the button for 6 seconds to switch it from Li-Ion to LiFePo4. And then you can tap the button once to switch it from charging at 500 amps to 1,000, to get them charged much faster. That's apprently totally safe with LFP batteries. I charged a couple recently and had no issues.

I really like the battery charger I'm using (the original one)—it's this model:

• 18650 Battery Charger, Keenstone Smart Universal Charger

They specifically call it an 18650 battery charger, but really it will hold many different sizes and types. I like that it automatically detects what voltage etc it needs to use, and whether the battery needs a trickle charge for a while, and it just does what if it needs to. It's a smart charger. Plus all the comments I saw for it are highly positive. I like it a lot better than the one I just got when I bought the LFP batteries. That one isn't a smart charger, you need to set everything manually, and after charging my batteries I discovered there's a tiny little switch on one end of it you need to set for how fast it will charge (500 or 1,000 amps, or Ma's or whatever it is, I forget the terminology). The instructions are printed so small I had to get out a magnifying glass and put on reading glasses to be able to just barely read it, and then of course the instructions were written in Chinese or something and poorly translated, so you have to wade through a lot of gibberish and try to figure out what it really means. Of course that part's also true for the Keenstone charger, but what can ya do? Just about all this stuff is coming from Asia these days.

... And it hit me—if I'm riding an eBike, rather than a regular pedal bike like I used to, I won't be able to ride on the sidewalks anymore, or toward oncoming traffic, so I can see what's about to hit me. Those are two things I always did, and I don't think I'd care to ride if I can't do them anymore. As for riding on the sidewalk, I would only do it when the sidewalk was clear—if anyone was walking there or waiting for a bus or something I'd always get down in the street and go around them.

I only got stopped once by police, in 2.5 decades of riding, and that was a rookie officer. I think they all recognized me and knew I was a considerate rider despite the fact that I technically broke the laws. I suspect most of them understood that it isn't safe to ride with traffic coming from behind you, so if somebody is too close you won't even see them until they hit you, and that there's no reason to not use the sidewalks as long as nobody is walking there.

Plus I can't help but think that an eBike is going to be much stronger theftbait than a regular bike. I never got one stolen, though a friend did. She went into her apartment and left her bike sitting in front of the building for like 5 minutes, unlocked, and when she got back out it was gone. I never parked mine anywhere downtown (which is where she lived) without chaining it to something, and I always made sure the chain went through the frame and both wheels, because I had the quick-release levers—the wheels come off really easily, and if I wasn't careful I'd get back to find just the front wheel chained up, or just the bike frame.

But yeah, I don't think I'd enjoy riding if I had to always ride on the shoulder with my back to oncoming traffic and could never use the sidewalk. And I'm pretty sure with an eBike they'd make me do those things.

Found in the r/ebikes Wiki:

"Lithium Iron Phosphate is currently the most common lithium battery used in Ebike applications. It is considered the most stable lithium battery type available today (low risk of fire) and has a reasonably high life expectancy of over 1000 charges.

"For a complete write up on LiFePO4 care and trouble shooting read our story here. LiFePO4 cells nominal voltage is generally from 3.0-to 3.2 volts, and generally, lifepo4 is a heavier and less power dense than available LiPo batteries and is not capable of as high of amperage discharge.

"LiFePO4 is currently widely available for purchase as e-bike packs complete with BMS on ebay and other online merchants. Mostly it is sold by small companies. Also, most of the commercially available e-bikes powered by lithium batteries are using the LiFePO4 chemistry."
Source​

So now it seems like those commenters on the Reddit didn't know what they were talking about (no, that doesn't happen, does it? Gasp!). And I'm back to thinking LiFePO4 is the way to go. Why would I mind some more weight, since it's a freakin' eBike?! I don't plan on pedaling it much.

Reddit to the Rescue?

Lol, just used that title for the alliteration. Here's a thread with some thoughts on what I'm looking at doing:

• Anyone here ever looked into using Lifepo4 cells/battery packs for their ebikes?

Final post: "If I understand right although they're safer and last longer they are also heavier, larger and carry lower capacity which makes them unsuitable."

And post just before it (aka the Penultimate Post): "If you're adept enough to build your own battery pack it's energy better spent on learning how to properly use and maintain a Li-ion pack than swimming up stream with a battery chemistry that doesn't really fit the requirements."

Maybe I should look into that as well.

I see there's an r/ebikes (where the above thread is located). Could come in quite handy.

Now I see they have a bigger, more powerful one called the EcoFlow Delta 2. Strong enough to run a refrigerator on.

Portable Power Station

I'm considering getting one of these:

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It's basically a power storage bank, so if the power goes out you can run a few appliances, maybe a lamp, a fan, your computer, or whatever. You can charge it up using household current, solar power, or put it in your car and plug it into the cigarette lighter.

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Here's the Amazon listing:

• EF ECOFLOW Portable Power Station RIVER 2 Pro, 768Wh LiFePO4 Battery

I love that it uses LiFePo4, I wouldn't consider it otherwise. If you click to see the videos for it, the guy who did the short video above did a much longer one that gives a lot of info.

I also think I understand that little post above saying that Lithium Iron Phosphate was an early eBattery technology and has been left behind for Lithium Ion—what we're seeing now is a new generation of higher-tech Lithium Iron Phosphate. I'll give that another Good to Know.

Moving ahead now—Begin eBike research

Ok, my flashlight battery conundrum is settled and done, just waiting for the batteries and charger to come in. And I've increased my knowledge of all this eBattery stuff considerably—now I almost know enough to qualify as a level 2 idiot!

Next stage—looking into whether I can get an eBike with LiFePO4 batteries, or convert one. Here's a nice page that seems like a good starting point to launch my research from:

• Can you Use LiFePO4 for Ebike?

If you just read the text parts it's incredibly monotonous and repetitive. Encouraging though. In the first video he builds his own eBike battery from LiFePO4 cells, and it looks like something I could do (with another little research curve attached, especially concerning soldering and electrical connectors). I actually have some experience doing hard soldering, aka silver solder or brazing. It's different though—it's done with a torch. I suspect the soft soldering used for electrical connectors doesn't require a special acid bath (called Pickling) for the parts afterwards. Plus regular lead solder (I think that's what it is?) is much cheaper than silver.

All of this is making me feel a lot more familiar with the technology. Hopefully I don't need to build my own battery, but I feel like if it's necessary I can now. That really didn't look very difficult, though it's not the best looking battery.

And now I see why it was so hard to find those 18650 cells in LiFePO4—apparently those are very rare. Nice to know. Maybe finding them in other sizes won't be so difficult.

The charger I've been using automatically detects what kind of batteries are in it and adjusts everything, I believe including if it needs a trickle charge for a while (because the battery was too low). But I ordered the LiFePo4 charger to go with the new batteries.

Every influx of info that raises new doubts causes stress. I usually don't stress much at all (stoicism, don't ya know), but this has been so much endless research for so long, with so little actual useful information, and I've been immersed in this insane world of suddenly exploding batteries and fires that can't be put out... after a while it starts to erode your secure worldview.

Now that I believe I've found some good LiFePo4 batteries and the right charger I'm re-securing my worldview. Expect to have it done in a day or two.

It's too late to cancel the other batteries, they're already on the slow boat from Hong Kong and will be here in about a month. I'll add them to the other little battery bombs I've got and see about finding a disposal facility.

I think I might have found a source, of good information and also where I can buy from. Here:

• Lithium Werks 18650 1100mAh 30A LiFePO4 Battery

These batteries are Chinese, but are UL listed. The whole site seems reputable, and actually gives useful information rather than endless random information that doesn't help (as I've had to wade through on other sites). They even recommend a compatible charger. Another random tidbit of info I just managed to extract from an otherwise useless and endless page of strings of numbers and bad English is that if you use LiFePo4 batteries you need a charger specifically designed for them.

Ah god! My head is so overfilled with all this it feels like it's overheating and is about to explode and start shooting unquenchable fire out my ears. But my quest might finally be at an end. At least for flashlight batteries.

Those are the ONLY batteries in the right size and voltage I've been able to find.

The things you've said are the same things I see over and over, and nothing more specific. The iPhone might have caught fire because it was sitting in the hot sun on the dashboard, or maybe it got banged around. Impact is one of the causes. I don't think I've seen any batteries so far that aren't Asian. But I've only looked on Amazon, maybe that's the problem? I'm so burned out from all the endless research and almost no results. And then you hear "Some sellers are claiming they're Lifepo but they aren't, and it's usually the Chinese ones, only sometimes it's not, you never can tell really." That's the real problem. It seems to be a totally unregulated business, and all you get are these vague statements and nothing concrete. And I get the feeling no matter what the company name, all the batteries are really made in China.

Of course, in the end, that's life isn't it? Despite what we've been told or think we know, ultimately you just have to take the chance and you never really know for sure. Our world is being filled up with these little bombs, and no matter how carefully you research and try, people around you are carrying the bad ones, or somebody in your building has an eScooter on a charger right now that's starting to smoke.