A Bit like Terminator Salvation If you could build an exact carbon copy of a host’s brain, down to the neuron links and thickness of those pathways. Would the new Clone or Machine replicate the original host’s wants, needs, goals and desires...? Here’s my story with the scientists testing on a very violent criminal. I mean a really bad one. In the story it turns out the new clone is horrified at his original hosts behavior and feels real remorse towards the victims. Here is the problem, why is the exact copy different? My theory is that even though the two brains are identical in everyway it’s how they were constructed that differs. A pedophile serial rapist you will usually find was actually abused himself. It’s this pressured tortured abuse over time that formed his mind set. The Clone’s conscious construct hasn’t suffered in the same way to form those exact neural links and pathways... So, uploading to a new clone when the current one is past its sell by date, we hit a brick wall. How could I find a solution to this? Recording memories isn’t the answer. It’s more the emotional state at the time of a new pathway was formed... The stress or horror of the situation.... Any thoughts on the subject would be much appreciated. MartinM.
But you just said the brains are identical. If they haven't got the same neural links and pathways, then they're not identical.
Psychology can't be totally determined by materialist factors. I don't believe that perfectly replicating a brain will create the exact same personality or character traits. So much of what forms us as individuals depends on our early life experiences—the relationship with the dominant parent, your personality type versus his or hers and what kind of survival strategy you developed as an infant. Then there are powerful factors like birth order, whether the mother favors or disfavors you, traumas that cause psychological issues. Whether you were raised by loving parents in a nurturing environment or foisted off into some kind of cold institution early in life etc.
I love this sort of thing. Theoretical transhumanism, science fiction, thought experiments, this is a personal interest of mine. Let me brainstorm here.... just free-writing so bear with me. You could integrate some outside metaphysical or spiritual factor, such as the soul. Yea yea I know. Just warming up here. Likely not the route you’re interested in going, but it seems the most obvious. One has a soul, and the other doesn’t... which one though? One would think the copy would be without a soul, since he’s the copy. If that’s true, why is the original so evil. Hmmm... something to play with. The method constructed, as you mentioned, or the method designed. Even if the replica is a physical carbon copy, it had to be designed, 3D printed, neurons had to digitally correspond with mapped neurons until they could be physical reconstructed... maybe there is something inherent about the process. Maybe when neurons are scaffolded linearly they produce the same physical brain as a grown human, but a grown humans brain develops different because it grows... however human brains grow. The original grew in a womb and through childhood. Maybe neurons that are constructed after digital mapping are somehow fresher, less “burnt out” or damaged... I know we’re not really there, just brainstorming. But if there was a difference in neuron effectiveness or intensity, would such a difference be physically measurable (on replica)? Maybe consider brainwave patterns. Maybe there is something inherent about lived experiences that is so raw and damaging it created the first person. Since the copy hasn’t lived the real experiences, they are incapable of being impacted on such a level. Why though... Sort of like experiencing something in real life vrs. watching a recording or reenactment... but how would one explain such a difference in a scientifically plausible way, I don’t know. Maybe there is a unique chemical reaction in the brain that only takes place in the uttermost depravity. This isn’t it, because the copy would have the same damaged state. Unless it was an perpetually ebb-and-flow reaction and the copy was taken while this chemistry was “ebbing,” and something in the originals environment triggers the flow... Perhaps it’s the state of capture as you say, or perhaps it’s something inherent about the original or his depravity, or inherent about being the copy. I don’t know the confines of your world, but you may need to get metaphysical with it. They say doppelgängers are a harbinger of death, you know... I know this probably doesn’t help much, but I enjoyed giving it a shot. Coming up with a solution here is tough, may need to get creative. If you’re looking for a scientifically-justified answer I’d probably look for talks or papers that dig in deep on brain copying problems and related thought experiments.
They explore the themes of pre-determination and free will, using memory and implanted experiences informing choice and action, in the film Dark City.
Thank-you all for the valuable input. It’s a common SCI-FI trope used by Peter F. Hamilton or Iain M. Banks and others in many stories with science fact creeping up from Google and a Russian Oligarch, have a search. The immortality axe sucks any readers imagination in from Dracula onward. To simply uploads one’s conscious into a new vehicle time and again seems equal to any God. I disagree with #Naomasa298 they are an exact copy. However, the original and copy would act different to each other due to the fact they both came to their end construct from very different paths. Even though they both end up exactly the same. The idea of #Xoic is the sort of thing I was thinking of. The experiences of early life form impressions. However, as we age the memories become rerecorded like a VHS videotape over time with the original copy somehow losing its quality. The rewriting of the VHS recording becomes distorted and changed over time. Cases of extreme trauma are a good example. So, the clone copies here although exact wouldn’t feel the inebriations the subject has grown up with. In Blade Runner (any version) the replicants are given implanted false memories why? They have a short life span only four years. The memories seem to give the new born CPU empathy. This short cut over a human wouldn’t develop until it was five years old. This empathy seems important over a static logic gate. The avenues #NWOPD explores shows the many flaws to my story. I would highlight the Netflix show Altered Carbon. It explores social and life style routes, but in each upload your personality remains in tack. Many people developing apathy towards life without consequences having mortality removed. This I think cannot happen. I will take a look at Dark City thanks #Selbbin. My thoughts differ in many ways. The major point is at aged 51 I’m over weight sinical and passed my sell by date. I would love to upload myself to when I was 21 years old. Not turn back time, but retain all the life lessons and experiences I learned from the past 30years. Without the life lessons the exercise is worthless, think about it. The idea might be to regularly back-up the mind at fixed points in life. Recording not just memories but the emotions them memories impart? This idea then may cause the clone to be not exact but closer to the actual original… Please any more ideas let me know Big thank-you MartinM
I think this is a good solution. If you're looking for a scientific-ish explanation to include in your sci-fi, you could look into hidden layers in neural network construction. In short: there is an input (your original brain) and an output (clone brain), and the path to get to the desired output is entirely reliant on the hidden layers. The same way two different equations can paint the same line. As long as the output is what was asked of it, the path it took to reach the output is irrelevant... leaving room for some changes in the clone. The input, however, is always the same, which would make it so that life lessons you mention in your last post would always carry over.
@mar-iposa Thank-you for taking the time to look at the thread. I like the idea of hidden layers in the neural net’s construction and the thought of an Input Output solution. However, they the two constructs wouldn’t be identical. This though is closest I’ve seen to making it work. Does play into my other thread sort of, but will keep them at arm’s length for the moment. https://www.writingforums.org/threads/i-failed-the-turing-test%E2%80%A6.168199/ The Input/Output theory got me rambling along in thought, so read along if you like. The problem with the thread is no matter how close it resembles the original clone; it will always be a copy. I, my soul or conscious doesn’t move. If my brain can be moved into a new host, then this solves a short-term problem. However, the brain will need repair and maintenance. Nanobots rebuilding broken path ways, while drugs allow the host to replace old brain cells that have died... How much would all this upkeep change my emotional state? Taking theoretical transhumanism to this level is probably less than 100years away. Extending life from 100years to 300years becomes an easy hurdle. However, even after 300years of life I bet you’d still carry deep rooted trauma and similar behavioral patterns... I’ve wondered off topic a bit, but again thank-you all for giving me lots to think about... Anymore thoughts idea please keep ‘em coming. MartinM.
