Author has trademarked common word; threatening other authors over its use

Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by Catrin Lewis, May 7, 2018.

  1. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I've been on the other side of it with Amazon, when it was MY work being plagiarized, and I was happy with how quickly they reacted. But... my claim was legit!
     
  2. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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  3. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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  5. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Got it.
     
  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Sure but If I write a book about the goddess Nike munching on an apple neither of them will sue me
     
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  7. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    Not to mention I have an MC who loves apples. Not too worried
     
  8. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Of course not. But a common comment when something like this comes up is that a person or entity can’t trademark a word that has been in use for a long time, and that’s not true.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Isn't it more that you can't trademark a word that's been in use for a long time for a specific purpose - ie if steve jobs had been starting an apple importers instead of a computer business he wouldn't have been able to trademark his product as apples and bar anyone else from saying theirs were too because loads of different people would have had substantial prior use
     
  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    You can’t trademark a generic term—so you couldn’t trademark “Apple” to sell apples. You could probably get it as part of an export or import business (if Apple computers didn’t exist) but you’re right it wouldn’t stop someone importing apples because they wouldn’t be infringing your mark by doing so.

    People rarely try to get a trademark on a generic term. More often it is a term that is “merely descriptive” of the goods or services. You can’t get a trademark registration for such marks unless you have what is called “secondary meaning,” which is when the market has come to associate the mark with your business over time.
     
  11. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Too lazy to dig up the legal reference (maybe it's in the Passive Guy article I originally linked to), but apparently you can trademark a common word in reference to something it's not normally associated with, that it's not descriptive of. And infringement has to do only with products of a similar kind. I know that's not good legalese, but, it's like Steve Jobs could TM the word Apple for computers and Apple Records can do it for music, but an apple grower can't TM the word apple for his fruit. But Apple Records can prevent Apple Computers from using the word once the latter wanted to get into the music distribution business. Thus, iTunes.

    The problem with "cocky" is that it's long been used to describe a certain kind of alpha male protagonist/love interest. She didn't invent it and readers apparently didn't connect it to her work in particular. In fact, as Kevin Kneupper brings evidence in his challenge, Ms. Hopkins didn't adopt "The Cocky Series" as a comprehensive series title for all her Cocker Brothers works until after she filed for the TM in September 2017.

    I have to wonder why La Faleena's attorneys didn't advise her to TM the whole phrase "Cocker Brothers of Georgia" or whatever, which would have been specific to her work. Unless this was a cynical, preconceived ploy to wipe out her competition.

    Yeah.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Yes. You can’t trademark a “generic” term. Ever. That’s what “Apple” is if you’re trying to register it for apples. You can get a trademark on a descriptive term if you can show secondary meaning, which isn’t always easy to do.
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I strongly suspect her lawyer didn't give her much advice at all - that cease and desist didn't look like it had been written by a competent lawyer
     
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  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Also, if you have a trademark and the term becomes generic, the mark is lost. That happened to aspirin, for example. It’s somwthing Google was worried about at one point.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    The firm that filed the trademark for her is well known. They represent a lot of movie stars and others in entertainment. They certainly didn’t write that cease and desist letter, however.
     
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  16. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    I wonder if what she's doing is like an apple grower looking around and discovering that a particular variety name, say, Red Delicious, is not trademarked, getting a successful application through the understaffed, overburdened Trademark Office, then telling all other growers they can't call their Red Delicious apples that any more, or All Their Munniez R Belong 2 Himz.
     
  17. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Varietal names are tricky. I file trademark applications for those quite often, but the strategy is to give the variety itself a meaningless name, like some initials and a number, and then to focus the trademark filing on a name to be used in commerce, like “Green Emerald” for grapes. People refer to it as the variety but it’s a trademark under which a variety is sold.
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Surely cocky is a generic term
     
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  19. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure I've heard that term cocky back in the day. Don't get cocky kid ring a bell! LOL.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Whether something is generic or not depends on the goods. The two things can’t be separated. I could register COCKY for a microbrew beer, for example, and it certainly would not be generic in that instance.
     
  21. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    The RWA (Romance Writers of America) has apparently contacted Amazon and asked them to pause any further removals of books with "cocky" in the title. Hopefully this will stop the bleeding for the time being, and get authors with books already removed back up for sale.
     
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  22. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Yes.

     
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Sure but you wouldn't be able to stop someone from writing cocky in a novel title if it wasnt about your beer, anymore than steve jobs can stop every book with apple in the title
     
  24. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    That's a very precise witch hunt there sir. :p
     
  25. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Seems based on what I have read here, that Miss Hopkins has come
    down with acute Foot in Mouth syndrome.

    Guess it doesn't pay off to piss off a group of people because you're
    as spoiled self-entitled little shit.

    Hope her books get pulled for her blatant abuse of copyright infringement
    claims, and not understanding how TM and C work.
     

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