Okay then. I thought it would be a purpose to them, for them to do such a thing. But if it's not a purpose to them, what would be their motive for doing such a thing then?
You should utterly and totally abandon the idea that not just one, but MULTIPLE people, apparently in the same city, were driven from totally normal people with totally normal childhoods, to murdering rapist psychopaths, "because" they didn't get sex on demand. That's what.
Well I think I should abandon the motive, and put in a new motive for them. One that the reader will accept more. Cause it seems that readers are bothered by the motive, so I should come up and stick to, a new motive. The reason why I wanted multiple cause it creates a better plot, than just one person having to do everything herself. When the MC pulls on the thread, to figure out who is behind what, it leads to this person, then to this person, etc. It just creates more obstacles, and it allows the plot go in better directions rather than one person doing everything herself, which she probably couldn't, cause she would need help.
Okay thanks. The tricky thing is, is that the villain feels it's justified in their own heads. So in order for the reader to not feel it is justified, would I have to pick a motive that the villains would also not justify? Would the villains be going around committing serial rapes if they didn't feel it was justified, in their own heads?
You. Could. Eliminate. The. Rapes. Because you don't seem to be able to stop with the plots that justify, almost glorify, rape. So....just stop it. Yes, I am not the boss of you, but I'm going to say it anyway: Just stop it.
Okay then. Well the MC is raped by the one villain, and his victimization is what drives his character development, and plays a large them in the story. So I could eliminate the rapes of the other members, and just have the one member rape the MC. But if I do that, do you think the rape will come off out of nowhere, if the MC is raped about half way through the story, where as the other villains were committing different crimes? I feel that if I keep all the crimes consistent with the members, that it will not come off as jarring, cause it's set up more properly then. The MC wants revenge on the gang, because they are all rapists, and not just one, who raped him. Or maybe having a rape halfway through, while the others were committing different crimes was okay, and the MC still wants to figure out who they all are, and bring them all down as a whole. What do you think?
Many, many books are written that do not have a rape theme. Many. I'd guess that it's even a majority. Really. Lots of them. You could write a book that isn't themed on rape. You really could. It's a possibility. It's a thing. I'm not saying that rape can't ever have a place in a plot. I am saying that it should no longer have a place in your plots. I don't usually tell writers what to do like this. But it's my very, very strongly held opinion that you should write a book that has not even one rape in it. Unthinkable as that may seem. I'm just curious: Have you yet been able to comprehend the idea that I'm suggesting that your book not have rape in it? I'm not asking if you're agreeing, but you don't even seem to be able to hear the suggestion.
I could cut out the MC's rape entirely, and have his motivation for going so far, be something different completely. Like maybe he lost a loved one to the villains, or maybe he doesn't like crime and is just really obsessed with getting them. I suggested taking out the MC's rape to other readers, but they said that a cop being raped, as a motivation for revenge, hasn't been done before, at least not that they have seen, so if I took that out, I would be taking out the premise that makes the story the most original and then it looses it's point. They said that the story is no longer original or original anymore, and then theme is lost. At least that is what they said. This is why I did not want to change the story, cause they said it was a really good and original idea, for a premise.
The fact that almost every way that you have cast the story ends up sounding like a justification for why rape is understandable and OK and an inevitable result of the existence of people who don't have sex with anyone and everyone who requests it, is a reason for you to abandon rape as a plot element, a reason that immensely outweighs any advantage of originality.
Okay thanks. Well the readers also told me I should keep the original premise, and just make it less offensive, rather than throw it out entirely. I thought it would be better to take away that reason of justification though. I mean the MC thinks rape is wrong, and goes after all the rapists to bring them down. So since the MC does that, can I make that a condemnation of rape, rather than a justification of it? I mean the MC gets revenge on them in the end, and comes out on top, and most of the other non-rapist characters in the story are behind the MC's actions, in bringing them down. So can the reader see that as condemning the villains rather than justifying them, since the MC is the one who brings them all down and is successful in doing so?
I'm betting that you're still claiming that your character is a rapist "because" she was denied sex on demand, and for absolutely no other reason. If so, then, no. It's still not OK. It's still more not-OK than I can even begin to express.
No, I am saying that if I change the villains' motive for raping to a completely different reason, will that make it better, and the reader can get behind the MC more, as he brings the gang down, and avenging the rape that was done to him?
You've been absolutely set on "turned into a rapist because denied sex-on-demand" forever. I just can't believe that the new motive isn't going to slide back to that one.
Well I have been concentrating so much on the MC's side of the plot and what he does to drive the villains, that I perhaps wasn't open enough to changing enough of the villains. What if I used Cave Troll's reason? Is this a better motive for the villains?
You're still focused on "she became a psychopath because no sex on demand!" I don't think that Sal's idea actually assumes that; I'm tentatively assuming that Sal's assuming that she's a psychopath due to some other, previous, cause. But you absolutely, utterly, reject every single other cause.
Okay thanks. Well one of the suggestions before was to write it so that the villains are raping authority figures, cause they have something against authority figures, which is why the MC is targeted. How about that for a reason? Is that more acceptable?
Try reading The Anatomy of Motive by John Douglas. He is the same guy that worked for the FBI Elite Serial Crime Unit, also the author of the book Mindhunter. Though I suppose that would make sense, considering it is written by a guy who really chased after people like your MC. But what do I know...
Villain singular , and the suggestion was that hes targeted because he's a cop and therefore an authority figure ... the whole idea of a gang (I assume of women) going round committing multiple rapes separately but from a shared motivation is just not credible. For one thing most rapists are men - female rapists are unusual, female rapists of men are even more so , so the idea that a whole gang exists just pushes the bounds of credibility too far. secondly on the idea that the rapist is acting out because she wants sex ... it is virtually impossible for a woman to force a man to have sex with her against his will - she could drug him so he doesn't realise who he's with , or so that he becomes pliable and consents to sex, but in terms of brutally forcing the sex act its not really a viable thing - she can of course rape him by forcing a foreign object into his anus (whether that's a strap on or a bottle/poker/ or whatever) but that isn't going to do a lot for a woman who wants sex hence why i suggested that her motivation should be anger at men who only want to use her for sex rather than wanting sex herself Thirdly rape is generally a solitary thing (leaving aside gang rape of a single victim , and the sort of multiple rape and pillage that happens in war), he idea of a whole group of rapists getting together isn't credible and fourthly you don't seem to have a good grasp of the psychology of rape , either of the effect on the victim or the motivation of the perpetrator So overall you've got a decent storyline regarding a brutal gang, the blood ins and a rogue cop seeking vegenance on them, made hard work, lacking in credibility, and repellent to a sizeable proportion of readers by the inclusion of the subject of rape... where you could as chicken freak suggests remove the rape element entirely and just have the cop assaulted/beaten , or have someone he knows killed by them (perhaps even as part of a blood in).. and with that, like chicken freak i'm also done
Paul Brittan's books the Jigsaw man and Picking up the Pieces are also worth a look - hes a forensic psychologist who worked with the Met police on various high profile cases, they are especially good on understanding both the impact of crimes on victims psyches and also on understanding the psychology of wha makes someone a perpetrator (e.g in this case that someone doesnt become a rapist just because they can't get laid) now i really am done
I think Ryan has the seeds for a good idea, one that needs to be brought down to Earth. A psychopathic woman, maybe somewhat disfigured, spurned by all, maybe somewhat violent and aggressive, develops an obsession with this good looking cop, who maybe also spurned her at a bar, so she drugs him, kidnaps, and rapes him in some humiliating way, and then that's it. No gang. No serial rape. It's a one time act of aggression spurred by rejection but performed by a psychopath.
Well the thing is, is that I wanted her to commit other crimes so the MC can still get her on those. The MC cannot try to make a case against her for his own rape, since it would be a conflict of interest, and she already got away with it, and got rid of all the evidence. So I wanted there to be other crimes she committed, she could still be busted for. Plus the whole first half of my story, is the MC hunting down a mysterious rapist, not knowing her identity. So if I write it so that she rapes the MC only, then the first half of story length, is gone.
